Wow!

You try telling them that on the Wakey forum!!

Better still - don't bother!

"For my money, your continued SL existence stunts our growth - we've got the capacity to develop into a Wigan, Warrington, Leeds kind of club - you haven't, and the sooner everyone accepts that, the better"

Looking forward to a week on Tuesday even more now. Time approaching to ram this back down his throat.

If that's the case, why has WTWRLFC failed to capture the imagination of Wakefield residents over the years of its residency in Super League. We're constantly told that Castleford is a small town with little to offer in terms of expanding the club's spectator base. However, here are some telling statistics: average crowds at Wakefield compared with crowds at Cas in the same season. I've included a few rather telling seasons in this list. The number in brackets after the average attendance is the finishing position of each club in the table that season. NL1 stands for National League 1 and R denotes that the team was relegated from Super League that season.

2004: Wakefield: 4806 (6); Castleford: 7034 (12R)
2005: Wakefield: 5100 (10); Castleford: 5469 (NL1, 2)
2006: Wakefield: 5447 (10); Castleford: 7096 (11R)
2007: Wakefield: 6781 (icon_cool.gif; Castleford: 5108 (NL1, 1)
2008: Wakefield: 6962 (icon_cool.gif; Castleford: 7501 (12)
2009: Wakefield: 5892 (5); Castleford: 7489 (7)
2010: Wakefield: 5983 (11); Castleford 6616 (9)

Even if you exclude the relegation match at the Jungle in 2004, where the Tigers pulled 11055, Castleford's season average would have been 6725. So, over all those years when Castleford haven't been as good as their supporters would have liked, and where they only finished above Wakefield in the final standings once, the question remains: what have the Wildcats done to capitalise on their on-field advantage over their neighbours?

How can anyone blame Castleford for Wakefield's failure to pull an average crowd of more than 7000 in any of those seasons? What capacity is being developed by WTWRLFC? Why can't a team that has had playoff qualifications under its belt pull in larger crowds? From finishing 6th in 2004 and having success in the playoffs, there was a lot to build on. However, the crowds stayed away in their thousands (on a comparison with Wigan, Warrington and Leeds, anyway). In fact, in a successful playoff season, Wakefield couldn't get more through the gate each week than Castleford did in two seasons in NL1. This isn't really the sort of statistic that backs up your argument.

So my question is why should people accept that Castleford hasn't got the capacity to develop and that Wakefield has? It's got absolutely no foundation in terms of how the clubs have cultivated their support over the past few years.

Over to you...

Still waiting for a reply I see Georgie!

*BUMP*

A good sound argument, very well made. I worry a little about people who boost their own ego by sniping and bitching about others. I have never, and would never, argue that Cas aren't a very well supported team who have a bigger (slightly, but demonstrably) following than Wakey do. I for one think that either team has the potential to achieve much better crowds in the future, and the major factor behind that would be playing good rugby with a degree of success - much more of an influence than stadia, although new stadia will improve attendances.

I look at the relative success that Hudds have had over the past few years, and firmly believe that if either Cas or Wakey had been lucky enough to match their level of investment in the team in a modern stadium we'd be looking at crowds of 9 or 10,000.

So my answer to your question is that people should't accept that Cas or Wakey can't develop. We can and, hopefully, will. Quins, though.................?

Agree totally. I think Wakefield and Castleford should stop having a go at each other, and look at so called superior 'francises' such as Quins and Crusaders. Both struggle on many fronts.

They shouldn't - you're absolutely right! My original post was deliberately inflammatory, however, if you switch the club names around, many of the people who have disagreed might find themselves agreeing. i.e one of us has got the capacity, but both at the same time haven't.

The serious point I was making (not very well, I accept) is that the WMD can't support two SL clubs and I still believe that's the case, for several reasons: a) the governing body don't want us both in the top tier b) the supporter base isn't big enough and c) producing two SL compliant, shiny stadiums 8 miles away from each other, is simply too big an ask in any financial climate, let alone this one.

I was also trying to reignite the merger debate, as it seems that most RL people outside of the district believe it's the only sensible thing to do. As deadline day approaches and one of us appears to be facing the chop, I often wonder where we'd be now if the three clubs had bought into the 'Calder' idea that was mooted back when SL first kicked off?

Watching a plastic team and not showing as much passion about it as we do at present.
The rivalry we enjoy is because of our seperate identitiies, and the fight within to keep them just that...Seperate.

Championship 1, having gone bust because the supporters didn't care and didn't go. Probably pulling about 500 fans a week.

Cas have got quite a big catchment for SL because east we've got halfway to Hull and north we've got loads quite frankly, as well as decent road links to the new stadium location, so provided the marketing is done well enough, we have a huge capacity to expand.

We've just been debating this one on the Wakey board - the general consensus seems to be that whilst on paper there may seem to be a powerful legal case, the reality is that no SL club has the financial resource or the will to take on the RFL - certainly not WTW or CTRLFC. The legal costs would be astronomical and the repercusions for the club involved would be too far-reaching - that club would, for all intents and purposes, bar itself from SL forever. Much more likely to do a Widnes - roll over, have your belly tickled, then hope that your master throws you a bone next time around.

But then it's all speculation until the moment arrives. The other problem for the RFL would be that the general public would see that an injustice had been done, and many of them would vote with their feet. You've mentioned the "Calder" situation in your previous post. The RFL did a huge U turn on the mergers idea after the supporters took that one up. And remember, it wasn't just Cas/Fev/Wakefield: there was also Cumbria, Manchester, Hull United et al. Not only did it show that the people running the RFL clearly didn't understand the reason that we support our teams, but also the fact that many fans were incensed that London Broncos got a place in spite of the traditional supporters losing their teams. Similarly, if it was to be done on a truly "regional" basis why not merge Leeds/Bradford and Wigan/Leigh/St Helens?

In the end it was the supporters that got that ridiculous idea stopped. It could happen again.