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| FORUMS > Castleford Tigers > ROBBED AGAIN |
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| Quote: rover49 "It clearly has caused disagreement amongst all fans, I suppose it was a 50-50 call and they usually go to the attacking side. I felt at the time it was no try because of the players reaction as where we were (on the halfway on the bottom step) it was impossible to see, but when they replayed it on the screen I said to the missus 'nothing wrong with that' as did a few cas fans stood nearby. Having since seen it several times, i am still of the opinion it was a good call.'"
Well we're all entitled to our own opinions.
As was said on the previous page, if that happened in open play it would have been a knock on.
If the player knocked the ball forward in the air following a kick to the corner and then grounded it that way it would have been a knock on too. | | |
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| Quote: Towns88 "So why wasn't the Ainscough try awarded in the first half with the 'benefit of the doubt' to the attacking side? I know they were different, but for me 1 can't be awarded and the other not
He lost control before the line, Watts was over the line.
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But still lost control.
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| I really dont see how Watts try was awarded, its just like running at a player, throwing the ball over his head and recatching it..  | | | |
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| Quote: NormyCasTiger "I really dont see how Watts try was awarded, its just like running at a player, throwing the ball over his head and recatching it.. www.therfl.co.uk/clientdocs/rugb ... 2007_%20(2).pdf
The only question for the liam watts try that needs asking was did he get his hand or arm on the ball before it hit the ground or after, I reckon that's the 50/50 call and it depends on who you support whether you think he did or not. |
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Quote: Legionited "The only difference being the process of throwing the ball over the opponents head would be done in a controlled manner whereas this was a lack thereof and should have been punished as so.'"
I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but everyone seems to be seizing on the idea that "being in control" is the key here just because various commentators tell us it is on TV. Nowhere in the laws of the game does it mention this, all that is needed for a try to be scored is for the ball to be grounded in the in goal area, those are the rules that the referee enforces.
see for your self
www.therfl.co.uk/clientdocs/rugb ... 2007_%20(2).pdf
The only question for the liam watts try that needs asking was did he get his hand or arm on the ball before it hit the ground or after, I reckon that's the 50/50 call and it depends on who you support whether you think he did or not. | |
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| Quote: Towns88 "But still lost control.'"
Which part of the rule says you have to have control when grounding the ball? |
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| Quote: overthemoon "Which part of the rule says you have to have control when grounding the ball?'"
Which part of the rule book says you don't have to regather the ball before it hits the ground after knocking on? |
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| The relevant law is Section 10, Law 2 relating to accidental knock-on. This discussion seems to be surrounding people's interpretations of the word 'regains' within this law. If a player grounds the ball cleanly after having previously knocked-on accidentally, are they deemed to have regained the ball?
Quote: Laws of the Game Section 10 - Knock on and Forward Pass "Deliberate 1. A player shall be penalised if he deliberately knocks on or passes forward.
Accidental 2. If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed. Otherwise play shall stop and a scrum shall be formed except after the fifth play-the-ball.
Charge-down 3. To charge-down a kick is permissible and is not a knock-on.
Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.
Knock-on over Goal line
After a player, from the field of play, knocks on into his opponent’s in-goal area and he or a colleague touches down, play is restarted with a scrum where the knock-on occurred, except after a play-the-ball subject to Section 12, Law 10.'"
My interpretation in this situation is that he hasn't regained it and that in actual fact, the ball touching the ground complete's the knock-on. However there is nothing in the glossary to clarify this, the following may be of assistance though |
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Quote: overthemoon "Like it or not, to the letter of the law Liam Watts did score a try.
SECTION 6
SCORING – TRIES AND GOALS
Value 1. A try shall count four points.
Try and Goal A conversion goal or a penalty goal shall count two
points. A drop goal during play shall count one point.
Deciding winners 2.
(a) The game shall be won by the team scoring the
greater number of points. If both teams score an
equal number of points, or if both teams fail to
score, then the game shall be drawn.
Try – How scored 3. A try is scored when(a) a player first grounds the ball in his opponents’
in-goal, provided that he is not in touch or touch
in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.
(b) opposing players simultaneously ground the ball
in the in-goal area provided that the attacking
player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or
over the dead ball line.
Sliding try (c) a tackled player’s momentum carries him into the
opponents’ in-goal where he grounds the ball
even if the ball has first touched the ground in the
field of play but provided that when the ball
crosses the goal line the player is not in touch or
touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.'"
Downward pressure my backside!
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_5/
11 mins 10 seconds into it. The ball hits the floor before he makes contact. |
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Quote: overthemoon "Like it or not, to the letter of the law Liam Watts did score a try.
SECTION 6
SCORING – TRIES AND GOALS
Value 1. A try shall count four points.
Try and Goal A conversion goal or a penalty goal shall count two
points. A drop goal during play shall count one point.
Deciding winners 2.
(a) The game shall be won by the team scoring the
greater number of points. If both teams score an
equal number of points, or if both teams fail to
score, then the game shall be drawn.
Try – How scored 3. A try is scored when(a) a player first grounds the ball in his opponents’
in-goal, provided that he is not in touch or touch
in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.
(b) opposing players simultaneously ground the ball
in the in-goal area provided that the attacking
player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or
over the dead ball line.
Sliding try (c) a tackled player’s momentum carries him into the
opponents’ in-goal where he grounds the ball
even if the ball has first touched the ground in the
field of play but provided that when the ball
crosses the goal line the player is not in touch or
touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.'"
Downward pressure my backside!
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_5/
11 mins 10 seconds into it. The ball hits the floor before he makes contact. | |
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The rules still support Liam Watts from what I can gather.
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Watts definitely is touching the ball before it hits the floor, whether he thought he'd scored or not.
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That was a definate no try. What a shame the video ref was so blind.
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what an absolute disgrace of a decision if that was a try why wasn,t ainscough in first half i personally think the dobbins were there for the taking but u seem to switch off same problem as fc have had in the previous two seasons
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| Quote: Bonzo "The relevant law is Section 10, Law 2 relating to accidental knock-on. This discussion seems to be surrounding people's interpretations of the word 'regains' within this law. If a player grounds the ball cleanly after having previously knocked-on accidentally, are they deemed to have regained the ball?
My interpretation in this situation is that he hasn't regained it and that in actual fact, the ball touching the ground complete's the knock-on. However there is nothing in the glossary to clarify this, the following may be of assistance though
Spot on. There's no way he 'regained' it. I would like to think that for a player to be deemed to have regained control of the ball (to nullify the accidental knock on), the player needs to have sufficient control that enables them to catch and control the ball before touching the ground i.e. in both hands or hand under the ball that prevents contact with the ground. If that is achieved then he then put down for a try.
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