The crowds at the likes of Cas haven't gone down becasue we have nothing to play for - they're gone down becasue nobody wants to pay £21 to watch rubbish.

If there was relegation to consider, do you really think this would change???

£21 for rubbish, or £21 for potentially relegated rubbish - nobody buys an over priced product.

When I starter going to SL games in 1998, it was £12 to get into cas and £5 for kids.

Castleford especially only have theirselves to blame for not making the most of licencing.

Catalans, Wakefield, Huddersfield, Widnes, and now Salford are all making the most of it.

We need to question why we aren't, not the structure of the system.

Also, clubs need the kick up the bum to maintain their assets - our "stadium" along with a few others is not of any good standard, and over the last 45 years we have done nothing to address that. The RFL has picked holes in our club because they're there through neglect

Do you think it would be beneficial for any club to endure what we did during P&R???

No. It wouldn't.

But Dave P&R does at least give something to play for, £21 for relegation rubbish? think in the season you got relegated at BV the crowd was 8,500.

yeah but wakefield are getting 8500 in most weeks these days Mick, and I'd argue (quietly in cas any of your mob are lurking lol) that you guys aren't playing for a massive amount either

my point is, no matter how you structure the league, there will always be mid-table teams, top teams, and bottom teams.

I hate to compare, but look at the Premier League. How many times do you switch sky sports on, see that West Brom are playing Stoke and think "eurgh".

The reason Cas are playing meaningless fixtures now isn't down to the league structure, it's down to us. And our lack of improvements season after season.

Why don't we join the Chmpionship and lets make a push for the title, give us something to play for...

I can't believe people are saying they'd rather us be playing to avoid relegation, than playing with the stability of security - which gives us time to plan for the following season!

Tin hat time Dave?

dunno about the tin-hat, I'm getting a brolly though cause it's raining bullcrap.

Licencing hasn't had chance to work, so nobody can pass judgment.

Though the differences it has made, are all positive.

Crusaders, Wakefield, Salford and Bradford having financial trouble was through bad management - which may I add has since been rectified and three of the four teams are far stronger as a result of the stability that the licence system has offered.

.....boom.

You can always come over to the dark side Dave!

sorry mate I've run outta batteries for my torch.

Alec seems to think that Newmarket will be the death of the club (don't shoot the messenger)

Exactly what I'm trying to say mate spot on. Licensing seems to have worked for everyone apart from Cas.

That's down to bad board management year on year.

I couldn't believe it when I went to watch Us down the lane against Leeds at the beginning of the season. Out of order toilets on the first game?? Simple things and it clearly ed off a lot of people around me.

The heavens were pouring and the entrance gates were a foot deep in water. How hard would it have been for a few of the staff to sweep this away before the gates opened? A couple of sandbags at each entrance is all we put on for fans to attempt to step over. In this day in age that's not good enough. You're not paying just to watch the team anymore, it's the whole experience of the day.

CAS need young fresh ideas from people who have moved with the times.

couldn't agree more.

We have abused the licencing system and as such our palce in Super League is at threat.

Seems fair to me

All those teams haven't finished bottom under licencing so why couldn't they improve under P&R ????

Saints downfall is more to do with the cream of British RL retiring within a few seasons at the club. How do you replace Long, Sculthorpe, Cunningham etc etc ????



It was near enough the same price when we were in NL1 and as many (if not more) were coming through the gates. Under P&R our crowds whatever the league (and we haven't been any good in 10 years now) we were getting more in. What do you suggest we do to sell a game between ourselves and Salford with nothing to play for ???



Endured what in P&R ??? a massive 2 relegations in our whole history

Elimination play off vs Widnes in NL1 made a mockery of the 3k that attended in SL this year.

If franchising is so good and has worked so amazingly why is there even a debate to get rid of it ??? It's killing the game IMO

so what you're saying is....

you'd rather s be playing ANtionalt League 1, trying to get through the play offs, to be promoted, battered and relegated again, than have the stability and structure to build in order to compete at the highest level we can?

And don't forget that licensing caused clubs to chase the golden goose resulting in wakey, Bradford and Salford nearly disappearing for good and crusaders despite millions thrown at them failing after a few seasons. . It's only luck that has seen us survive.
You have to face the fact, licensing is killing the game below Superleague level and isn't really doing Superleague any favours.
We need to return to some form of promotion and relegation and a fairer way to share the bit of mone y that the RFL has , instead of just using it for favourites ( Bradford and the Odsal debacle is a prime example)

No grass roots no Superleague , it's that simple

What I'm saying is I'd rather watch a sport with drama and meaning and well attended fixtures right through the season than what we have now (a borefest).

Still if you would rather watch cas in front of 3k in a dying league that's upto you

Afterthought.... Promoted battered again and relegated ??? After we were promoted in 05 we didn't finish bottom Catalans did (you know because they had protection as I suggested promoted teams should have)