I think you are misreading this... there is a comma after the word rates!

So what it means is the following -

relates to a matter where the Council’s [has] regulatory functions such as Planning or Licensing functions together with Education Admission or Exclusion Appeals as there are separate statutory processes in place for dealing with these matters.

The issue is compromising the planning process... this is a bad thing for getting planning on WR not a good thing!!! The members of the planning committee would be legally compromised by discussing this, they would simply have to leave the meeting and I doubt that the legal service team at the council would advise the full council to exclude the planning committee members for this and other democratic and legal reasons.

My only point here is that the full council are unlikely to be able to debate this issue and if they did or were forced to do so, it would make things much worse and not better! Asda and Morrisons, who will both object, will have their lawyers on this like a shot and would have a possible good case to force an independent inquiry.

If someone can point me in the direction of information that absolutely contradicts my interpretation then great, but I do think my reasoning is sound.

As I said IA, you have well and truly come out as anti-Cas, why would you otherwise post this stuff on here? As has previously been said, even though the NM project was known to be risky at best, all you did was come out in support of it and blasted the locals (NIMBYS as you referred to them as), now the locals in Castleford have almost to a man woman and child, come out in support of this, so what do you call these people who actually want the development in their own (and not your) backyard? maybe BIMBYS.

Fair enough, you say you live near the NM site and say because of that your voice should be heard OK I'm fine with that, but you do not live near the Wheldon Road site, so why do you have such an interest in trying to derail this?

Bloody hell, it is like the Flat Earth Society around here!

Firstly, where else should I post it?

On the Wakey board? - No, this is nothing to do with Wakey, if I had posted my original post there then it would be anti-Cas trolling would it not?

On the VT? - Same applies really, what the hell as it got to do with the rest of RL supporters!

Secondly;



Hypocrites R Us eh! 'Even though the NM projects was known to be risky at best'... you mean in your opinion? The opinion that the entire planning committee did not share with you but agreed with me and others who support the development! It was statutory referral and as such, always carried a greater than normal risk of a call-in, I and Wakefield City Council officers didn't think it would get called in... but if did. We were all wrong! But will we be wrong again in less than a years time... we will have to see? Either way, it does and will not change my opinion about the suitability of the Newmarket Development.

I continue to call them NIMBY's, because I am not a hypocrite, I think that the majority of objections in relation to Newmarket are for no other than NIMBY reasons. I always acknowledged that the Greenbelt and ecological issues were different and as such justified within the process, both I and Wakefield Council officers think that it is justified... now the planning inspector will decide and he will either agree of disagree! Simple!

Who said I don't support the development of WR and I am trying to derail anything? Not me mate, once again someone makes a sweeping assumption about my opinion on something with which I have not really yet expressed an opinion!!! I will say again, you do have to be careful not to ass/u/me too much!

For the record, I am pro-development (obviously) and as such, when the proposals are publicly issued the likelihood is I will support the development (possibly with some conditions, just like planners!) but equally I have not seen the plans yet, so signing a petition to support something that I have not yet got adequate details of is not going to happen. I will wait, see the plans, form an opinion based on firm proposals and let you know... is that OK with you?

You will note and find that one of the first supporting comments for the reserved matters application for GH was from... me! But apparently I am anti-Cas!

Finally, you still don't get it do you!

I support BOTH Cas and Wakey retaining SL status, I want BOTH Cas and Wakey to get new stadiums but I want both sets of fans to wake up and smell the coffee!!! I think this petition is distracting Cas fans from what they should really be doing at this stage (the petition should come when Opus actually MAKE an application, after July!), putting pressure on the RFL to give both clubs another three years to get this sorted. I am trying to make you and others realise that while RW has to play the smoke and mirrors game (as AG and JE do too) to some extent, you don't have to and if anything it might be the biggest mistake Cas fans make!

What happens if Cas get kicked out ahead of Wakey... who will RW blame... the council now of course... it will be everyone else's fault except his and the clubs... he is covering is ass and taking risks, he has no choice in many ways, but the fans have a choice... what is yours?

It might work... but what if it doesn't??? Does a 15 team league seem a better idea... when you are not in the 14 team one?

This supermarket is, as I have said before, very likley to happen... but if you think it is going to be in the next 2 to 3 years, never mind 12 months, you are kidding yourselves. This proposal, has nearly as many issues as Newmarket and those issues will need to be addressed, discussed and resolved and compromised on, before this gets planning.... which I think it will

Like I have said... the Ostrich pen is that way >

Perhaps you'd like to set up a meeting with him and tell him exactly this. The club phone number is 01977 518007. Get an appointment and go in and speak to him man-to-man. Tell him you could do his job better than him while you're at it, that you're an expert in all things to do with planning and that you can show both him and Opus exactly where it is they're going wrong.

This will serve two purposes:
(1) You'll come out feeling a bit less superior than you did when you went in.
(2) It will stop you coming on here and spouting puerile garbage like this on the forums.

Don't judge other people by the way that you'd behave.

IA, I really don't think you are helping matters by coming on here and rubbishing the petition, the people of Castleford are firmly behind this and it's in their back yard, it is their way of informing the council that they wish this development to go ahead.
I fail to see what purpose is served by you continually knocking it? What axe do you have to grind, especially if you think it will go ahead anyway, the petition is asking the council to make the planning process a priority when the application is submitted, Opus will have dotted the i's and crossed the t's when the plans are submitted, they are experts in this kind of development and it's not a matter of trying to bulldoze plans through that are not in the interest of the Castleford public. This development offers a fantastic opportunity to a part of town that has been allowed to be run down, it is within easy walking distance of Carlton Street, it will open up the riverside and some of the planned investment is to improve the infrastructure at that end of town, it really is a win win situation for the town.

On the other matter of numbers in Superleague, I honestly believe we should have a 16 (not 15) team Superleague, I believe it would eventually lead to a better international team, with more English players playing at a higher level on a regular basis, we've all seen what John Kear has done with players not thought to be good enough to make it at Superleague level, those players have definitely raised their game whilst at Wakey and appear to be improving all the time. However, I don't think the RFL will increase the number of teams, but reckon this is mainly a matter of current Superleague teams not wanting to accept a smaller share of the pot, rather than the other arguments that are bandied about of there not being sufficient talent to go around.

So IA you're still continuing to rubbish it when in fact, in the post above, you've practically admitted you know zip all like the majority of us. You're just second guessing everything and what really gripes me is that you're spinning things negatively.

I do consider you to be a good poster but surely reading back your own posts you can see why people are stating you have an agenda, an axe to grind. Why don't you actually take your time to speak to Opus who are driving this project, not RW. Maybe then, rather than being opposed (in a fashion) you may realise the benefits and become supportive of the scheme.

Additionally, I don't think the petition would have been organised, endorsed and supported by the club and publicised if it served no purpose.

Danny - I am not rubbishing the petition or any petition, for gods sake, I (and others) spent the whole of January and February focussing our time on organising public meetings and collecting 3000 Statements of Support for Newmarket. That all said, please remember, this isn't a numbers game per-say, I keep telling people this even though I have ended up reluctantly playing the game myself! One genuinely valid (in planning terms) set of objections or equally supporting comments presented by only one person, outweighs any number of people objecting/supporting with less valid reasons! The question here is do WMDC planners have a point about the issues they are raising and asking Opus to go away and look carefully at? If they don't look carefully at these things, will Asda and Morrisons (and even a planning inspector ultimatley?) drive a huge supermarket delivery through any obvious holes in this plan... of course they will!

I also just picked up on something Casmania said on a post on the other forum about this being debated in front of the full council if they got 15k. This suddenly set alarm bells ringing and I thought, hang on, I am not sure that can be right... which it turns out I am probably correct about! The thing about that is I suspect Casmania or one of the Cas supporter organisations thinks that might be the case, and now people posted up the WMDC guidelines, it is clear why they got that impression. What happen at the end of June when the council do turn around and say, actually, we can't debate this for legal reasons, but thanks, we will pass it on to planning!!! You might as well get the council legal team to advise you now if my understanding is correct, and if it is, keep the petition open until the planning actual goes into WMDC later this year!!!

Arghhhhh.... I am not rubbishing it... I do think you and others are focusing CURRENTLY on the wrong things but that is my only major point of difference, and it is just my opinion. As for not knowing anything, I know more than most but admit I am filling in some gaps, like everyone. I know what was said at the meeting, from someone who was there (there I said it... pleased now). I know who Opus's 'proposed' end user client is, I know quite a few of the consultants already working on and others who submitted fee proposals for the scheme, I even know how big the supermarket is to the nearest sq ft retail area... do you?

I don't have any issues with Opus and in future months I suspect they may well contact me, because we are on certain list that they will be given by their proposed end user client. I am not unsupportive of the scheme... although I find it difficult to fully support something I have not yet seen, the only point I am trying to get across is that this will most probably not take months but years to bring to fruition!

On your final point, I don't think the petition is pointless, but you do raise and interesting point about the clubs support of it! Firstly, why would they not support it, Wakey supported much of our effort as best they could for the Statements... why say no? More importantly, this does RW a huge favour with the RFL bid, he will exploit this opportunity for all it is worth, and quite rightly so, but will the decision come down to more than positive PR... possibly, possibly not... I wish I knew!

It didn't look like you were being critical, it was a childish outburst, slagging him off for something he hasn't done. He might put a positive spin on things, but he's never in the past gone around blaming everyone but himself.



So now tell me something I don't know. Whether we like it or not, this is 21st Century business, image is everything, style matters more than substance.



In brief you're saying that telling people the whole truth would consign the club to the fate of Ratners.



BUT, you only know part of the detail so the most you can post is only part of the detail. Yet above you're criticising RW for only telling people part of the detail. That seems to be very hypocritical. Also, you're saying that you feel it's unwise for the club to make all the details public, and that it could affect the franchise process. So you then go and post information on a public forum that you feel would be detrimental to the club, and try to pass this off as some kind of public service. In other words, you don't care a jot about Cas's franchise bid, because you've considered what you've done and done it knowing that it would be detrimental to the club. That's not exactly the act of a philanthropist, is it?



The RFL will have to take the clubs by their franchise bids. Anything else would be seen by whichever club loses its franchise as unfair, and could lead to all manner of trouble for the RFL. Fans' petitions should have nothing to do with it. If they did, the franchising system is just a joke. What's the point of spending all that time and money doing a costed business plan if a large number signatures can change the outcome? And don't spin me the usual line about "This is the RFL we're talking about here." I'm not saying what WILL happen, I'm saying what SHOULD happen. The final decision should be based on the franchise bids and will be scrutinised closely by the lawyers of the team that loses its licence, you can be sure of that.



I was just being sarcastic there. TBH I don't really know what you do but I do know that you're not [iau fait[/i with all the details of this case and that your little pot-shot at RW finding someone to blame showed up your inadequate knowledge of the people concerned. RW has not gone scapegoating people in the past, and if things do go wrong and we don't get a franchise, he's more likely to try to put a positive spin on it rather than blaming the council.

Yours was a childish outburst about someone you clearly don't know and had no place in your post. You go on about "morally starting to struggle" with how the situation is being delivered to the fans, and then you have the audacity to start putting in your four-pennorth when you actually know much less than the club do, and then start slagging off the CEO for no good reason.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Right, I have now had the opportunity to read the link. I disagree. The petition is not asking for them to input on the planning process. The petition is a whole different entity to the planning process. What the petition can do is influence the Council opinion on the land usage of Wheldon Road and in particular The Probiz Coliseum. This means that, in the same vein the LDF was changed for Wakefield, I presume that the land use for Wheldon Road could be changed so that is acceptable for retail usage. It would have nothing to do with the planning application in any way shape or form.

No, but then again I have never said I did know the full details. But what I am not doing is hearing second hand information, listening to someone elses interpretation of that and then attempting to fill in the gaps. What I have said, and will continue to say, is that I believe that this project will not just be beneficial for Castleford Tigers but for the whole of Castleford town centre. It needs money spent on it because, in my opinion, Castleford town centre is derelict, rundown, decrepid and in elements still Victorian.



All the more reason for you to support it at the end of the day. If it benefits you (and the organisation you work for - I believe you are/were the MD of some Timber-related company?) Years in your opinion, Opus think not and you keep relaying back to the door of Castleford Tigers but it is not Castleford Tigers driving it. It is Opus and Palmer Capital so ultimately, RW can only support it because at the end of the day the planning application will trigger the full funding for our new stadium.



Wakey did the statements of support because of the NIMBY (as you refer to them) opposition that dwarfed the Wakefield support as much as you detract from it by the fact they have the same argument and the stats/figures provided. That was a necessary course of action to try and get the PI to support Newmarket. The petition is completely different. And why shouldn't RW exploit this? It provides huge benefits to Cas Tigers and you're forgetting that Saviles will have done their research on these issues so the RFL will be in touch with the current information. I may even suspect that Saviles will have met the relevant parties involved before reporting back to the RFL.

IA - A simple question - It is widely acknowledged that either us or Wakey are for the chop, who would you prefer to 'survive'?

Don't give me the flannel about wanting both teams to stop up or about the unfairness of the criteria and franchise process, just choose one or the other.

Of course he'd want W*key to survive the chop ahead of us. Their fans treat him like a messiah for a start!

I don't think it was a childish outburst, I was overly and unnecessarily critical, and I acknowldge that and I am big enough to say so!


Can't disagree with the sentiment but in my experience, within my sector, businesses that are too much image and not enough substance don't last long. However, good PR is important and you can't say RW is not a good PR man!



Sort of, although Ratner, lets remember, used that same joke several times in several speeches before the 'fatal' one and his mistake was underestimating the power of the ever more influential (at that time) tabloid papers. I am not encouraging or expecting RW to be 100% honest, but I am not sure why the fans of both clubs don't work the third angle of talking up keeping both clubs. If they don't understand the likley outcome then possibly one set of fans may regret not thinking about that option!



I know a large proportion of the information on both stadium projects, whether you believe me or my sources or not, I do and this thread is just about that. You might be right, when it comes to all the other criteria I know very little but either way, Cas and Wakefield bids would appear to me to be stronger than both Salford and Crusaders, other than on the stadium front... would you not agree?

As I said, and said lots of time before if you care to search my posts, I find it hard to be overly critical of RW (and do regret being so above) but equally can I say, many Cas fans appear to have short memory's!!! It would not be hard to post half a dozen or more articles of RW claiming this that and the other, which subsequently all turned out to be half-truths. The ground is SOLD for one, would only be half the truth would it not?

When you accuse me of posting something that is detrimental to the 'club' you show your bias (which is fine BTW, don't have a problem with that) because you view this as putting Cas down over Wakefield! You see as someone who supports neither club, I don't think that, I think it sets the record straight and actual shows exactly what I think it does show... that Wakefield and Cas are at least 18 months away from being in new stadiums and that kicking either of them out now would be plain stupid and possibly jeopardise those projects. You and others are accusing me of being anti-Cas but you do that because my posts actual reveal a truer picture of the situation and quite frankly, you don't like the answer. Well, the truth often hurts!



You call my a hypocrite yet you say fans petitions should have nothing to do with the franchise process and say if they did, the system is a joke... but clearly think that the planning process is different and a petition is fine??? Hmmm, double standards?

I refer to my point above, what is Savills report going to say. I understand that as of only a few weeks ago, Savills had not spoken to lots of key individuals on both sides that they probably should have spoken to and that the RFL have sent Savills back to dig deeper at both clubs. What will Ian Thompson (they should really speak to him, if they haven't then the RFL and Savills are beyond stupid!) tell them if they speak to him... I know what I think he will say and I think that the answer is at best going to be you are both in the same boat and at worst, Cas are even longer away from a ground than Wakey... so what then?



OK, OK, let it go, you were right, I was wrong and regret it but I also refer to RW and previous media reports above!!!

Well, in July you will probably being doing one or the other and the really sad news is that so will Wakey fans. I just wish you would both be laughing, but unless you all take your heads out of the sand one of you will be crying. You just hope it's not you right.... but what if it is... will you regret not doing something different?