2 years ago we lost in extra time of the semi final against Leeds.
Last year we fell to fev,
this year we lost away to Leeds. I don't think we disrespect the cup, just get beat by the better team on the day.

That's what we were talking about. 2yrs ago we were a drop goal away from the final. The experience of that atmosphere when the fans thought Rangi had kicked beat just about anything in years as a CAS fan.

Losing to Fev was a bad result last year, we were awful and the same against Leeds this year.

Honest ?

I don't think licencing has had time to amke much of an impact. It does need time to develop and the discussions of restructure now will have rendered the last 6 years completely pointless.

That being said, I do believe the league is more competitive. No matter how you structure it, there will always be a team at the bottom.

And the bottom sides this year have pulled off some shock results.

Licencing has made Wakefield, Widnes, Hull KR etc far stronger - it has also given the opportunity for London and Salford to build their clubs - Dr Koukash wouldn't have invested if they weren't in SL and the club would've been lost.

As for the challenge cup, it's no different to any cup competition in the world. Teams can have good fortune with draws, and in a one off game have a level playing field.

Look at us in 2010, Wigan in the FA cup this year... you have to beat some decent teams along the way, but there's always a team in the last four that surprise people.

In football you never get Manu Man C Chelsea Arsenal in the alst four.
In RL you never get Wigan Warrington Huddersfield Leeds in the last four.

This year Widnes have a chance to take Wigan on - who they lost to by 1 point on Friday.

I don't think we take the cup as a hinderance - we los to Fev because they turned up and dug in, as they did in their next game against Wigan.

I always say there's no disgrace at losing in a cup match to anyone - especially Fev who are a decent team and will have dreamt all month about beating us.

I dare say, if we had Widnes' draw this year, we would've made the semi final too (on paper)

I'm sorry but there is no way SL is half the competition it was ten years ago excitement wise or talent wise. Franchising is killin the sport and while we're at it make the play-offs top 6 again.

I think the Challenge Cup is played far too early. If you get knocked-out early and are below tenth/eleventh in the league with no relegation - what is there to play for ? We have effectivly got 9 games left - all meaninless.

I don't see how it is CTID....

At that time SL was notorious to be the graveyard of NRL stars. The tag that old Aussies signed over here for a payday to end their career - those days have long since gone.

Clubs are turning out with 80% English players, and teams like Cas are producing better quality juniors in the last ten years than they did 20 years ago at the start of SL, as are most clubs.

That's why these days we have an England team that boasts competition for places all over the field, and I genuinesly believe we have a better pack than the aussies - it's only centres really where they do for us.

Licencing also spared Cas - we wouldn't have survived another relegation, no way.

why was the competition more exciting? it was Bradford and Saints winning everything - there will always be the elite dominant teams, and there will always be a whipping boy team.

Hull, Huddersfield, Warrington... All these teams have improved their fortunes. Plus the Salford investment wouldn't have materialised but for licencing. The demise of Wakefield, Bradford and Crusaders was through bad management at club level (ie tax bills) which cannot be attributed to licencing.

People against licencing... What is it that you want that is lacking???

Clubs to me have better opportunities to blood young players BECAUSE there is no pressure of relegation. The bottom clubs don't need to sign some 35 year old Aussie to keep them in the league.

I shudder to think we need to sign any more Nutley's or Guttenbiel's or Tookey's

I'd rather see us get beat fielding 14 local lads than win 2/3 more games doing that

All that is well and good , as long as you are one of the elite chosen clubs. We have seen the debacle of Crusaders and the continuing farce in London while old and famous clubs struggle and even go to the wall while the elite are protected.
Would you have the same opinion if we were in the same position as Fev or Fax ?
In my opinion , the game needs promotion and relegation ,the county cups and a revamped regal style trophy to generate income for the less fortunate (dumped by the RFL) clubs and it needs doing now before the game contracts even further.

Quality wise England are churning out better players but the overall quality of the competition isn't at all IMO. The amount of boring games we have to endure at the end of the season is frightening and driving fans away, 3k at home widnes would be nearer 8 if P&R existed and tge loss of revenue to the club is crippling it due to the amount of boring games. i know more than a couple of people that dont bother to use season tickets so how can we hope people pay 20 quid ???. My personal choice would be 12x2 and a protected first year for any promoted club to allow a squad to be built (like widnes in franchising). Surprised you shudder at imports like Nutley... Of only we could find another of him !!!

Nutley was the best overseas forward we have signed since Vowles IMO. Just a pity he didn't stay that long.

The problem with most fans is that they're impatient. They seem to think that changes are made in just a few years, intact it takes a good ten years for changes to properly make a difference and I think it is in SL.

We're getting more shock results than ever before (SL era) and as said most of the teams have improved due to the non threat of relegation.

Back to my original point though I do still feel Cas don't seem to put our all into the cup which I feel we have the biggest chance of doing something in. I also feel that another cup should be introduced in the game.

Fans want to see teams winning things. 2 chances of cups isn't enough these days.

But no matter how long we stick with the system, come June at least 4 teams seasons are over. No reaso to pay in to watch a game and god knows how much lost revenue every year to the game. SL is more boring than it ever has been.... It's just .... $h1t !!!!

I do agree with that at present but its also getting closer each year for the top 8.

This is another reason though why I feel we need to start the challenge cup later along with another cup.

I'm really surprised people don't see the improvement under franchise (attendance has dipped but I feel this is more to do with more people than ever now having sky and limited funds in our areas).

Who's improved under licensing?

Catalan have made huge improvements.
Wakefield seem to improving year on year.
Widnes currently have as many points as they did last year. If they'd been relegated would the promoted team be on their per? No.
Huddersfield are improving much in the same way Wakefield are; albeit further up the table.
Saints have always been near the top end, this year they've struggled.... Due to the Improvement of other teams in the league.

...and a massive injury crisis.