Don't think the RFL would be the best people to run seminars on increasing crowds!

The work Toronto has done to date has been superb. The rest of the sport should have a good look at what they are doing.

What exactly have they done?
Is it sustainable?

More questions than answers if you ask me.

I thought that was Johnny Nash.

No Ian, it was Diane Abbott

I'll wait to see how crowds hold up. But sport is very different in the US and Canada. An away match for Toronto in Vancouver or San Francisco in New York is farther than Fax are ever likely to travel. Consequently, away support is virtually unknown. Teams plan for it. We, on the other hand, complain that Toulouse don't bring any fans, instead of developing our own crowds.

Indeed it was, pictures in my mind etc... many of us older members might remember it from the annual question of sport mystery personality quiz, which I entered religiously, always got right, but never did win my tickets to the Northern qualifiers for the UK spitting competition, or the regional heats of the shin kicking championships.

Back to Toronto, why are the RFL paying for the expansion of the game, and lets not pretend concessions to development clubs have no cost, when the foundations of our own game are built on quick sand, London Monarchs, Calderdale Explorers? Don't want to be a Luddite, but come on, sanity check. We'll have Antarctica and Greenland in a bidding war for the next World Cup on this route, to be played in the UK....Barmy sods.

Maybe RU could let the Barbarians enter the 6 nations one day.

Conversation to be had in a pub 20 years from now 'Remember when the Fat Controller let a side in from Toronto, with no ground and no infrastructure, what on earth was that about'

Let's start with getting it played in schools, and make sure clubs have adequate faciiities first eh.

Take away the atmosphere and your left with an acquired taste only, sports in this country are often envied because we have atmospheres, away fans, banter, singing. Franchises aren't everything.

The RFL aren't paying for Toronto, they are self funded. The infrastructure they have built in under 12 months is substantially stronger than many of the long established clubs, how many super league clubs own their own ground... 4 maybe? They've had trials in 4 different countries to try unearth unknown talent. They are having a go at it, OK they have got wads of cash behind them but if this investment pays off surely its for the good of the sport. I was very sceptical about them but the more I look at their efforts the more I think fair play to them for showing ambition and trying something different.

The latest news Barrow forced to leave 4 players at the airport dew to visa issues

That isn't Toronto's fault. More likely to be players issues. Visas are normally refused or delayed due to 'behavioural issues' and past indiscretions

If you are saying the RFL aren't having to assist with travel costs associated with skint clubs going to North America and across Europe to our EU neighbours then ok, you must know something I don't. LAst time I checked liberty village was in Ontario though, and I think if these clubs had a spare 20-30k+ to play an away fixture in Canada then the games in great shape and I applaud them all.

Nice sentiment, no precedent for this being any other than folly though, we shall see, an I am prepared to admit im wrong.

Never mentioned the European teams but it has been well publicised that Toronto are funding opposition travel and accommodation.

Toronto have absolutely no infrastructure at all, everything they have is propped up by blank cheques

Absolutely unsustainable, terrible business model. Who is paying the guys to take extra days off work to play these fixtures? If you think the RFL haven't spent anything on this then im amazed. It's called PR and marketing, you tell people what you want them to hear.

I look forward to then end of year accounts being published.

He knows something you don't.

Folk are quick to blame the RFL. They aren't a separate body telling the clubs what to do. The clubs have votes. They decide. They voted Toronto in. All the clubs are skint. They're not going to be paying Toronto's way.

Lets reconvene this discussion in a couple of years time eh see how it all went, in the words of Melchett 'Baah!'