Will Paul Simon be singing your players out as they get carted onto the pitch in prams?

This whole super league franchise, should we, shouldn't we debate is nonsense. Perhaps some of my fellow fans who have seen a thing or two at Halifax RL over the years might agree with the following about how certain times in our history have made me feel.

85/86 - Over the moon - Halifax RL Div 1 champions. We drew which meant Fev stayed up and we won the league.
1987 - Words can't describe it, you really had to be there but I don't think I've ever been that happy since or before.
88/89 - So low.....it felt like my world had fallen apart
90/91 - Incredible team, incredible season and we were back in the big time.
2003 - It had been coming for some time but it was a bitter pill to swallow to be finally relegated. I know for some people it might have been the kindest thing but just ask a Fartown Ferret fan how they feel these days - they had after all been bumping along the bottom of the league for far longer than us!

2010 - Am I really the only person who is delighted we're National League champions but asking the question 'so what'?

I've had enough of these 'We're not ready off the field', or 'We don't have a youth set up' or 'We might struggle' comments. Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at my fellow fans, just at the system which has got us all to accept these limitations.

Sport for me is all about taking risks, seeking new challenges but most importantly......dreaming. Sport is not logical, sport is not a business plan, sport is not 'ticking boxes'. Anyone who disagrees with me needs to have a word with a Blackpool fan.

Sport is meant to be illogical. Sport is meant to be having dreams and then when you fulfill them it's meant to be magical. I'm afraid this whole franchise nonsense is slowly killing my love for a sport which has meant so much to me for so long.

Look at the long history of Rugby League, look at who has won titles over the years, look at the names of clubs that no longer exist, look at how crap some of todays big clubs were a relatively short time ago and tell me honestly - should we not just return to promotion and relegation?

Great post, come on guys lets go for it, so what if we fail, as long as we are not stupid money wise which im sure with Martin Hall there we won't. Look at Hull KR, remember when we beat them at theirs in the play-off, well look at them now.

Agreed, we have to go for it now, 2015 will not neccessarily be a better chance for us, most clubs will have modernised stadiums up there by then too, we wont be in so nearly a strong position at all. We need to get a simple youth development plan in place now, a modest squad, accept that if by some freak we got in there, we would then have to get our backsides whooped for a couple of years while we consolidated. We would develop faster in it rather than out of it. That is surely why Franchises were brought it. the bug question is do we have the infrastructure in place, im sure we can get a 1st and a reserve or U21's out, and im sure we can get 5,000 plus crowds week in week out. Winning the Championship year in year out would be like being a WBU and IBO boxing champion and calling yourself 'one of the greats'

I Totally agree, You got to be in it to win it, (or compete at least) again, so what if we fail, better to have tried and failed to have never tried in the first place. The crowds would come back to us, Bulls fans would realise its not worth watching them anymore and get down to the shay full time. I for one think waiting 4 years is just too long, that could easily end up being 7 years, at which point championship rugby crowds will have depleted to almost nothing, Teams would struggle to afford players and the £300k salary cap would be irrelavant. Get up there now, there has to be some glimmer of hope which i am firmly holding onto.

Personall i think both fax and widnes should go up and 2 to come down. Wakefield and salford ( They will never allow salford down ) so who else could be potential to come down.

Start ticking the boxes again for 2015. Don't all boxes get unticked after the decision in March 2011?

Not sure about that but Widnes will be the last team to ever meet the criteria. No team in this league will ever get close to the 1m turnover and seen as though the team that gets releagted will go belly up i doubt they will either.

Hard to disagree with any post on this page of this thread.

Franchising stinks.

I'm another Leyther in agreement with the excellent post. When we lost at home to Sheffield in the play-offs, I no longer cared, yet it should have been the end of the World! It's reaching the stage, in the Championship, that results don't really matter, as long as you avoid relegation - and why do we have promotion & relegation between the Championship leagues?

I suspect that Widnes are 'nailed-on' for SL 2012, and good luck to them. But also good luck with your application, anyway.

By the way, the RFL hasn't said anything about 2015 - there must be a chance that they won't be dangling any more carrots before Championship teams!

Top post mate.
The thing that worries me is if we don't get in this time as we all suspect then its on to the next round if they have one?
By then the existing SL clubs may have all got their grounds sorted out, I stress might and if they have then how will they vote one out - EVER?

We can only hope that reality will kick in with at least one of the 'expansion clubs' and they bite the dust!
It may happen as I cannot see the Welsh experiment ever working and without a backer they will be cast adrift.

It doesn't worry me that we might not get in to Super League in 2012 or 2015, it angers and saddens me.

Franchising stinks. It's meant to create a level playing field but in reality it doesn't. It's only really in the USA where it works but thats because of the college draft system. We don't have that and we never will so how on earth does the franchising system allow a team which finishes bottom of the league build a new team to finish top?

You can't answer because the RFL does not have a plan which delivers that.

Imagine if Catalans were given the pick of this years maturing Academy players. Imagine if the Academies were at Universities which meant that young players were given an education which would help them when inevitably, most of them didn't make the grade. Stop imagining because it will never happen - but thats how the USA makes franchising work for them.

So what are we left with I ask?

1. A Super League where a poor season goes unpunished and a Division below where the rewards for success do not exist.

2. A set up which delivers nothing nationally (the national team is worse than before Super League began and International Rugby League is a joke which is no longer funny).

I'd hate to be a Widnes fan. Chances are in 2012 they will be playing Super League. Not for being the best team over a season or by being the best team on the day as we were just over 2 weeks ago. They will be in Super League because their board took the decision to allow mediocrity. They took the decision that meant they had to endure a mediocre season with no hope of winning anything purely because you'd ticked a box in 2009.

Why do we allow this to happen in our sport? Why is mediocre good? Why is it acceptable? Whenever I listen to Talksport they're forever banging on about Arsenal, Wolves, Stoke etc accepting mediocrity in their various forms and saying how it is killing football. Why do we not kick up more of a stink about Catalan and Harlequins?

I'm not having a pop at Widnes here. You knew the rules and I think your board have been far cleverer than ours by building a structure which gives the RFL what they want.

I fully expect that the RFL already know who will be in Super League in 2012 so I say to you Widnes fans - enjoy the big time but then ask yourself the question - does it actually mean anything?

You won't be there by being the best, you won't be there through an inspirational season. But then again, in a sport where being the best is no longer important - why care?

You need to look at it with a more open mind as well though, In total honesty I agree with the principles of franchising but I just don’t agree with the way the RFL are going about it and like other things, how quickly they implemented it without thinking it through.

You say it’s no better for the international game BUT would Widnes have invested as much in the academy if was P&R? Would Fev and Halifax now be talking seriously about doing so? No they wouldn’t. This stuff doesn’t change overnight! Would Widnes be running on a sound business plan now? Unlikely.

You guy’s were on here saying if you didn’t win this 100k it would be financial suicide (like we saw going for broke in 2007) yet now your saying your ‘plan’ is the best way to do things?

You go on about accepting mediocrity (one I don’t agree are squad start of the year was very strong on paper at least) but two, one of your posters said they’d feel cheated as a Widnes fan… BUT… Who cheated us more?

The board who spent more then the CLUB could afford to have a winning side on the park reaching Grand Finals yet then when it didn’t pay off on what is really an 80m lottery my club ended up in administration and (though highly unlikely) in a position where I may not have had a club anymore.

Or…

The board who got a grip of the finances, plugged a few leaks and started looking for some strong partnerships with other business. Still spent up to full cap but didn’t try and work around it pumping thousands in the first team for again something that may not guarantee SL at the end of the season? A board that has secured the long term future of my rugby club and is investing massively into the hot bed of local youth in the region? A club that wins awards as does it’s Chairman for business acumen rather than one that is pasted over back pages for financial troubles, contract breaches etc etc?

I still remain undecided on the franchise system and think they do need to make on the pitch have more significance… BUT you can’t deny the basic fundamentals are needed to stop another Fax (2003?) and Widnes 2007 from happening again, surely?

I've tried to have an open mind when it comes to Super League, franchising/licencing but I just can't.

Please don't take my comments around your season being mediocre out of context. Opinions are of course subjective. Our own season without the grand final win could be described as mediocre after all.

I think any business which overstretches itself and takes unnecessary risks is being foolish in the extreme.

But.....I refer you to my earlier comments about what sport is all about. Sport is not a balance sheet, sport is not a balanced scorecard, sport is not a SWOT analysis, sport is not about accepting second best.

Sport is about dreams, reaching higher heights, jumping further, running faster, being better. I refer you to my good friend Captain Sensible - 'If you don't have a dream, how you gonna make a dream come true.'

How did you feel in 1989? Pretty good I imagine! We did beat you in the first game of the season though. Doug Laughton liked our sliding defence and made it work for him. Didn't work for us and we got relegated. Brilliant team you had, can't imagine that team was fiscally sound. Jonathon Davies can't have been cheap. World Club champions too beating Canberra I recall. I'd love to see the balance sheet for that season.

I sort of part agree with you.

I too agree with the principles of franchising and what it was supposed to do, by allowing clubs to build and bring through british players without the need to bring in more overseas players to ensure they beat the relegation trap. However I am not sure that this has happened as all superleague clubs, when making their announcements for next season are announcing Australian after Australian after NewZealander.

It does sadden me that promotion and relegation is still not here and I am one who thinks that we are not really ready, administratively, for superleague and I agree with some posters who say that, whilst Superleague is not really an option for the next four years (at least) what we can do is use that time to grow as a club, put in a full structured set up and be the best in our division.

I think we all can guess which Championship club will be in Superleague next year and I say "well done" to them. Yes you can say that they will be rewarded for a mediocre playing season, but they knew the rules and have done what is required of them.

The danger we, and other clubs face, is that once the licences for 2012 are announced will the "ticked box" be re-set. In which case we will not be able to accept a mediocre season to build the rest of the setup, as we will need to re-tick one of the boxes in the next three years.

Er the BIGGEST difference between us and Widnes is that they have Steve O'Connor who has MONEY and can make things happen for them where we just cannot afford to such as a reserve and youth set up!