Problem is, it's a vicious cycle where everyone loses.

I'm not going anymore until things change, but things can't change if people stop going because the BOD can't do it on their own.
The end result is the free fall happens quicker with little chance of recovery.

There are no guarantees even if the club did change things it would be for the better, only after the event would anyone know, some would gamble, some wouldn't.

The problems Fax are facing are affecting most of the other clubs with their BOD's and coaching staff, are they all rubbish or is it still a sign of difficult times?

For a player confidence for example comes from a number of areas.

As a player or players off the field.

If the BOD pay them their wages on time and give them the support as an organisation they don't have to worry about that side of the game, the players have confidence in that area.

Our BOD have done that. When the BOD with the above in mind after having bank rolled the club from their own pockets with no hope of ever seeing their money back and hear what is being said about them by some of their own supporters this above all else will undermine their resolve and this comes from the terraces not the board room.

As a player or players on the field.

When a player or players busts there gut but still ends up on the losing side he his suffering enough, especially if he has contributed in some way to the loss by a dropped ball or missed kick.

When these guys hear what is being said about them from their some of there own supporters this above all else will undermine their confidence and that comes from the terraces not the board room.

Cards on the table and looking myself in the eye when I say it, I honestly think we are still in the mind set of being some sort of sleeping giant club that is too good for the Championship and we should not be losing to Dewsbury, Batley etc and when we do we can't handle it so blame someone else, the BOD the coach, the players.

It's been a constant theme over the last few years regardless of who the BOD are or who the Coach or players are whenever we lose for us to slag someone off and the BOD should produce this magic wand or solution instantly or else.

Reality is, even if we once were a giant, which is debatable in 2014 we definitely aren't and this downward spiral is likely to continue with everyone in some way contributing to it.

Stop moaning......? Please and if you think that anything we currently dish out is thrilling you are sadly deluded. I agree no team has a good given right to win but we do have a rich recent history that says we should be challenging. Fans are walking away in droves, KH plays distinctly poor one man rugby, our marketing and communication to fans is the poorest it's ever been and the attitude seems to be if we bury our heads in the sand it might be ok. Sorry but if that is our ambition the club is truly in freefall. The side looks devoid of leadership, ideas and we have a coach who changes a side more often than he changes his socks. Partnerships and understanding don't get made nor does confidence. Strange selection choices, poor player attraction in the main or decent players who sign for Fax and become overnight flops......? The rugby on show is drab, boring and KH has taken us backwards......? I look forward to your lecture Mr Windsor yarnman.

What so we just accept it....? Look at the history of the club and it is a sleeping giant as are one or two more in our league. However our recent history is more impressive than many of these clubs: SL founder and ever present until 2003 , challenge cup winner within this generation, league champions etc. Admittedly recent history not so illustrious but nevertheless Grand Finals and NRC winners say we've done ok. Crowds were improving andwe had a decent fan base to play with of 2k plus. The only downside was we underachieved at times with arguably the best squad in the league and that was Callands failing along with off field issues and our tendancy to not defend.
KH comes on board and dissects an exciting brand of rugby for his brand of boring rugby and assembles a side who in 3 years loses half its fan base. You seem to think we should just blindly pay £15 without question and put up with this rubbish....? These are hard times and money is tough still for many, blind loyalty is no longer the foregone conclusion it once delivered but value for money and entertainment are now a huge part of the equation. Neither of which I feel we get from the club. I've been through lots in 30 plus years following this club and stood through some dire moments but I've never felt so fed up or disassociated by the club. We seem rudderless and lacking leadership across all levels of the club.
Never has the demise of the club felt so real, change is needed across the whole club but I don't see it happening or realistic sadly.

Its a sad fact of Rugby League at the moment but we really need a money man/men. As it stands at the moment it has to be a combination of things to put the club back on the up, good team performances, winning performances, good vibes coming from the club, as Chris says at the moment it is hard to say we have any of those.

I think our pack set a great platform for us but we dont have the players to take advantage of the situation. We have a one of the best Loose Forwards in the league playing stand off, a position he does not want to play and hasnt played since he were about 18. This is down to KH's poor recruitment.

We have a standoff who has been on loan at Batley who KH thought still good enough to play top end Championship when most good judges realized very differently. I feel sorry for the lad because we should never have signed him and he shouldnt have been put in this position. Again bad recruitment.

We have the best second rower in the competition playing in the centre, why? You guessed it poor recruitment(or poor coaching but will get to that later)

We have a problem at hooker again although to be fair to KH if he had signed the pair we did 5 years ago they would have been good signings. He should have gone after a young, hungry, quick hooker but he didnt chase hard enough. Playing next to Paul Rowley for so long I would have thought KH would be able to judge a hooker pretty well. Again poor recruitment.

We have a team that looks devoid of confidence, Ste Tyrer a great example when it comes to kicking. Im not going to lie but when I watched KH's interview before the game when he was asked about Ste's kicking and practically blamed him for losing us games I were fuming. What is the lad meant to think? Thats when it needs a coach to say the right thing and saying kicking has cost us games this season is not the right thing. Read from the script, say kickers dont lose games they win them, do whatever you can to take the pressure off the guy. I was gutted for the lad yesterday knowing how much it means to him and knowing what he can expect from his coach.

Talking to a few players it seems that KH only has one way and that is lambasting them at any opportunity and for me if that is true then it is very poor man management. I dont think some of the back room staff should escape without a mention and when I hear players saying that the assistants are not too cracky either it starts to be a bit of a worry. I even had a local coach saying about Martin Gonzales was the best stats man around and could tell you anything you need to know about a player apart from if the player was going to be any good. The guy mentioned how he had recommended a number of players to Fax one especially who was a text book tackler but on the small size. He got rejected because he was told he was too small, snapped up by a SL club though and could easily have done a job at this level.

Then we get to the club itself and the half assed way it seems to go about things. Leigh are showing the way when it comes to this, even little examples like the team coming in after the game suited and booted, it screams professional outfit. Obviously I have said all i want to about the Fax TV idea and again I feel for the lad doing it because other than having people available for interviews it seems the club is not doing much in the way of helping him out and that is poor for what is a great idea and one that could make the club money.

Its a poor do when our main mans website says this:- Reactiv - Direct Marketing With A Difference, if that difference means no marketing then i guess its a tick in the box. Do we even have a marketing strategy? If we do then its no wonder so many people question it because it is simply not happening.

Waking up this morning , my mood should be very good , but after yesterdays events concerning Leigh fan Steven O Dwyer , im more serious and Sombre .

I get no pleasure either from seeing Fax in the State you are in at the moment , and agree with Yarnman , you are not out of the race for 2nd Spot yet , obviously you must start to win games , and fast , but it isn't over yet , I was at the Shay a few weeks ago when a slick fast Fax side pasted Leigh for most of the first half , im not sure what is happening at the moment , I KNOW Fax can turn this around , this League needs a Strong Fax side , don't give up , maybe you do need a change of Coach , that's for your BOD to sort out , but keep following your boys , its the only way forward .Charlie knows .

Well it's the morning after and after reflection and reading this thread I think it's time for a wake up call and reality check.
Firstly as regards yesterdays game I thought the team gave it their all in what proved to be a very tight game. Indeed in a previous thread I did say we would have to make those 4's into 6's as it would be very close. It turned out to be that way and we were on the wrong side of the scoreline again. Having kicked goals, I would not and do not, aportion the loss to Ste Tyrer as all kickers have times when things just don't go for them. He will work hard to improve , I am sure, as he strikes me as being that sort of bloke.
The reality was though that Dewsbury simply looked better coached within their pack when it came to offloading in the tackle. We simply don't get quick enough play the balls and never to look to test defences with close contact offloads. This negates Johnstone at times who, Like Thacks, has pace to burn if given the chance and opening in and around the oposition forwards.
Murrell is a class act but he is too slow for 6 and should be in a t 13 regardless of if KH is worried about him getting injured closer to the forwards- he has played SL for goodness sake and is a professional player.
Some class players in other sides we have signed, seem to have gone backwards I'm afraid and that has to lie with ALL the coaching staff who I just think are not good enough to take us to the next level , we all so desperately want us to be at.
The reality is we are at best a top 5 side and nowhere near the top 2 spots.
We also must not fall into the 'what if' trap re if we hadn't lost late on to Batley, if we hadn't drawn at Workington, if we hadn't lost at home to NWC, if Tyrer hadn't hit the posts twice at Dewsbury etc. The stark reality is we are not improving at the same rate as some of those teams around us.
Off the field the BOD seems to me to not want to see Fax in SL as we simply don't have the financial or indeed skill set at the club to back it up I'm afraid.
I listened to KH and Michael Steele at a meeting earlier in the season and it seemed to me they were already making excuses decrying the fact Leigh and Fev were probably breaching the salary cap etc.Whilst they agreed the new structure would open up a pathway to SL for any Championship club there was no loud message from them that it would be Fax.
That approach along with the lack of visibility and leadership from TA (albeit understandable if he is having personal issues) is not helping at all.
We clearly need some younger, more dynamic and 21st century thinking people to drive us onwards and upwards behind the scenes. The good old days have gone -we have to accept that- and we need to break this negative cycle we are rapidly following or we really will be in the #hit.
I have followed Fax to Huyton,Doncaster etc when we couldn't buy a win and been in that Cawoods crowd when we were the first professional team to lose to an amateur team in a cup competition-and we certainly don't want to be doing that again.
We have chance to turn things round but it's time for the BOD to try reconnect with it's fan base and also ,as custodians of our club, make those tough decisions to move us forward.
I will continue to support the team and the club but it's clear reading some other people's comments on here they won't and that is aconcern that needs to be addressed quickly.
PS Charlie not sure what happened re the Leigh supporter you mentioned but hope everything is OK.

Well said.

Surely sport is about winning, nurturing talent, having dreams and doing your best to realise those dreams. It's not amateur where it's people just purely playing for the love of the game? These guys are paid sportsmen lets not forget. If we have no ambition we might as wellpack it in now. When the BOD took over at Fev they had little cash, a small fan base but bags of ambition and look where it got them. People want to invest in success but not in mediocrity and too many seem to be settling for that. If the club settle for mid table watch the crowds disappear. We all should want better irrespective of the current situation. Money helps yes I agree but things can be improved regardless of it. Communication being one. If you aren't open to constructive criticism you are setting yourself up for a BIG fall. Likewise pretending all is ok generally spells disaster.

Remember the club were financially on their backside under Faz. Yet they took the brave decision to part company and bring in Martin Hall who made a huge impact. In my opinion another brave decision needs making and bring in a coach with ambition who wants to make a name for themselves. Daryl Powell when he went to Fev was smirked at, nobody wanted to know him at thetime , Leeds had discarded him many years before. He saw Fev their ambition and saw it as his chance. Remember they were in the league below when he took over and look where he and they are now.......We need to do the same and build again not just Labour on pretending all is ok.

I hardly think considering what and where we are now is pretending everything is okay, in fact the exact opposite.

I am unaware of who knows what the answer is and is it's out of my control.

The only decision for me is what I choose to do to support my club with what is in my control and I have said what it is.

It's vital to have ambition but it has to be realistic and achievable, to have a club promising the world when they know very well it's not going to happen is hardly being ambitious, more like reckless.

As I said some would gamble on change some wouldn't.

On criticism, when we don't know all the facts which bits can be classed as constructive with a real agenda that will be sure to work and which bits are just general across the board statements based on guess work.

Keighley next week and it will be just as tough.

Only 2 weeks ago KH promised 2nd spot and a grand final appearance. I think we have the team to do it, I do not think we have the coaching staff to do it though. If the rumours are true it seems the BOD bought in to it though.

If the board had given KH a new three year contract don't you think they would have announced it?

I think we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. We, like all sports clubs, need investment but don't have the board to do it. Without that investment and improvements all over the club, it is hard to attract high level sponsorship. The board has done a great job until recently but seem to have taken their eye off the ball, particularly after the failure to buy the Shay. There are other, obvious reasons for this too.

I believe we have a great squad but they aren't performing on the field for some reason.

The answers are not obviously forthcoming apart from an oligarch buying us up lock stock and barrel which isn't going to happen. Maybe it is wise to sit back and see what happens to Leigh and Fev, but will we be left behind in the mean time!

No I think even they would pick a better time than the current one to announce it.