The Brisbane v Gold Coast game was class, titans were unlucky to lose but when you've got a certain Mr Lockyer on your team, a match winning play is always in sight.

Back to the original topic, TonyFax I completely agree with you. Ben Black played when he wanted to, ok he was good when he did play but we don't need a player like that. At least out half-backs give 100% all the time.

And whoever said that in 2005 we were 10 mins from a grand final, therefore a good season, DID YOU ATTEND ANY GAMES THAT YEAR???!!!
We were dreadful throughout the entrie season except for the Hull KR game and the Cas game.

So my opinion on Black is leave him in Aus and concentrate on the players we already have playing half-back, i would rather have players giving 100% then a bloke who only plays half of the time he is on the pitch.

I thought we'd put this one to bed but if people insist on raising it again and having a dig then deep breath.........what a load of old nonsense Claire. Scoring the number of tries he did in an injury plagued season is [inot[/i playing "when you want to". And yes, its not just about the number of tries you score, but watch the 2005 season dvd and then come on here and see if you can say that he didn't make a massive contribution everywhere else. And just to counter another myth, his defence was no better or worse that any half back we've had since. People bang on about him hiding in the centres when defending but this is [istandard tactics[/i for god's sake, so that your key creative player is not having to put the tackles in every set and tiring themselves out. Virtually every team do this.

And finally, agreeing with TF on this sensitive issue is backing a loser since his halfback favourite and contemporary of Mr Black (Mr Dean Lawford) is trundling around NL1, and mine (who we apparently "don't need"icon_wink.gif is on the verge of making his Aussie first grade debut. To say we "don't need" a player of Black's calibre is hubris in the extreme. He'd be a huge asset to any team at this level.

I'd rather be backing a loser than being delusional and thinking we were good in 2005! The two games at the end of the season causes people to put on the rose tinted specs.

I haven't said that Black isn't a good player, he evidently is, and when he was here, he was one of my faves. But IMO he didn't play to his full potential, even when he was injured. We are entitled to our own opinions on here last time i checked.

Also, if you want to start comparing careers, I suggest that any one out of Ian Watson, Graham Holroyd, and yes even Dean Lawford, have played considerably more top flight games than BB probably ever will.

In the meantime, I look forward to Ben Black's NRL debut with great interest. When is it?

Where do you get the impression I thought we were good in 2005? We were dire. Apart from Ben Black

Fight, fight, fight....!!

Keep it up, good debate.

our defence is not brilliant now teams target our left ,with black there we would leak more points,watto and varks side of the field is pretty tight.

IMO, one of the problems with Blackie was the coaching (or lack of it) he got from Faz. Dont think he ever gave him the confidence to go out on the pitch & just take control.

For instance, remember when he put him on the bench over at Oldham? He should have been starting & ripping defences to pieces.

As for his defence, im sure you dont play half backs for their defensive effort. Sure they need to be able to tackle, but since Dunners, dont think we've had anyone who is great in the dept.

Would have been good to have seen Black back, but his time has gone, we have 2 good half backs here now & have the confidence put in them by the coaching team.

Fair enough but its not about whether we need him back or not that bothers me, its when people disparage his contribution and get all sniffy about him. For us, he was a great player and one of the few reasons for turning up in 2005. The kind of player who gets the blood running a bit quicker, and we've not had many recently. People criticise him on the basis that he only won [isome[/i games single handedly and was therefore "inconsistent" because he didn't win [ievery [/i game single-handedly

I didnt resurrect this thread with the idea that we need Ben back, just that it would be nice to see him play at the top level to see how he does. I watch all ex Fax players with interest and it was also good to see Rikki get some praise this weekend for the win over Cats. Had we gone up in 2005, God knows what would have happened to us with the coach we had so lets put that one to bed immediately.

Time to move on, but lets just keep our eyes open for ex Fax players and be proud of what they acheive eh.

Oh dear Andy my son, Claire appears to have beaten you hands down on this one .... and your weak and desperate attempt to bring my views on Dean Lawford was shot down in flames, you can't compare the present situation of Lawford (on the brink of retirement) and Black (still a young lad). And, again like Claire has mentioned, Lawford, whether you love him or hate him, has "been there and done it" at the top level. A more complete and consistent player than Black has or ever will be.

And on the subject of Black "single handedly" winning us games, he also "single handedly" lost us games as well. I'll always remember that home match against Rochdale when we lost in the last minute. I was at the end of my tether with Black's errattic and lazy play as it was (and yes he DID get gradually worse under Faz's coaching). But his performance in that particular match was the worse I've ever seen by a Fax half back ... he was passing the ball either into touch or on the ground, his tackling was appalling, and his missed one on one attempts were a disgrace. Folk around me in the South Stand were commenting "Oh aye, I see Black spent last night in Jumping Jaks again". But Faz never took him off! We would have beaten Rochdale that day, very comfortably, if Black hadn't "gotten in the way".

And as for your view that all half backs are protected when it comes to defending. Balderdash!! Did you see little Robbie Burrows thud the likes of big John Wilkie into the ground last Friday? Decent halfbacks don't need "protecting" when it comes to defence!! Surely? I rest my case!

But I'm sure we'll argue this one till the cows come home, cos I ain't changing my views and Andy ... you won't change yours

Maybe Black might make a return then we can analyse his contribution in a more maticulous manner, but until then I refuse to be drawn into this Bloody Black argument again! Honest!

Andy, couldnt agree with you more. Everyone has differing opinions on him, but what you cant take away was his "bums on seats" factor

You are absolutely right, but also,

what about his "fights in town" or disappear up "his own ar5e" factor?

Witness Holroyd's half back performance today. Far far better than anything Black had to offer. A controlled performance ,.... good kicking game ... sound distribution ... and solid defence. Had Black been playing we would probably still had won ... but he score would have been 54 - 44 or summat like that. And as for the comment Black "putting bums on seats" ..... .... the crowds were crap in the season he played so how the hell you work that one out??