FORUMS > Halifax Panthers > Accounts |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 9526 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
|
| Quote: freddies wig "Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator'"
I thought the sky deal was reduced again last time but IMG are tasked with trying to improve it although it is never going to happen barring a miracle.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| The last championship clubs' 2023 accounts I've dug out is Batley, for the time being, so 8 in total so far. They lost £227k and had net assets of £1.3 million because they own their ground included in fixed assets of £1.9 million. Of the other clubs - Barrow, Whitehaven, Featherstone and Doncaster have later filing deadlines (they may have tinkered around with their year end dates to extend the deadline), Toulouse of course being French don't file their accounts at Companies House, and cannot find Wakefield's new company name since Matthew Ellis took over so help appreciated tracking them down.
To summarise the 8 clubs so far in order of balance sheet strength:
Batley - £1.3m net assets; £(227k) loss; 32 employees
Swinton - £75k net assets; £(60k) loss; 6 employees
Widnes - (£34k) net liabilities; (£280k) loss; 34 employees
Sheffield - (£209k) net liabilities; (£283k) loss; 30 employees
Dewsbury - (£345k) net liabilities; (£100k) loss; 42 employees
Halifax - (£540k) net liabilities; (£200k) loss; 33 employees
York - (£580k) net liabilities; (£380k) loss; 36 employees
Bradford - (£863k) net liabilities; £22k profit; 133 employees
So (so far) we're all basically skint. Wouldn't be surprised if Batley sold their ground to keep afloat. Despite it's ridiculous slope that really would be a tragedy.
I will add the others when they become available and finish the Super League clubs later. Might even have a look at League 1.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 9526 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
|
| Quote: Tony Fax "The last championship clubs' 2023 accounts I've dug out is Batley, for the time being, so 8 in total so far. They lost £227k and had net assets of £1.3 million because they own their ground included in fixed assets of £1.9 million. Of the other clubs - Barrow, Whitehaven, Featherstone and Doncaster have later filing deadlines (they may have tinkered around with their year end dates to extend the deadline), Toulouse of course being French don't file their accounts at Companies House, and cannot find Wakefield's new company name since Matthew Ellis took over so help appreciated tracking them down.
'"
There is a chance that Wakey is Spirit of 1873.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "There is a chance that Wakey is Spirit of 1873.'"
Yes, good call Greg, I should have seen that as the old Wakefield Trinity company sold its assets to Spirit of 1873 before it got dissolved.
Wakefield's accounts obviously relate to when they were Super League in 2023 showing them making a profit of £2.7 million, but that included a grant from Wakefield Council for £1.6 million ans a shareholder loan write of of £1,275 million, so stripping them 2 out would show a small loss. They have net assets of £3.5 million but this includes nearly £14 million for the ground and other facilities but creditors include loans building the stuff. They're deferring some further council funding whilst the stadium has/is being constructed, but they look pretty strong nevertheless, that's what we've been competing against, not a cat in hell's chance!
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3208 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.: |
|
| Thanks for this. Very interesting. Those clubs that have “squad builder” type support from the fans, how would that be shown in the accounts? If it’s shown at all? The only reason I’m asking is that the last few players Bradford have signed have all had the line “ and thanks must go to bullbuilder without which this signing would t happen “ . I don’t know how much they actually help in % terms, but it’s obviously helpful
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 9526 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
|
| Quote: Highlander "Thanks for this. Very interesting. Those clubs that have “squad builder” type support from the fans, how would that be shown in the accounts? If it’s shown at all? The only reason I’m asking is that the last few players Bradford have signed have all had the line “ and thanks must go to bullbuilder without which this signing would t happen “ . I don’t know how much they actually help in % terms, but it’s obviously helpful'"
Not 100% certain on this but they normally tend to be separate companies don't they? I presume money then handed over as donations may avoid tax implications.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Quote: freddies wig "Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator'"
On the contrary, the SKY deal was revised down as from (and including) 2023. According to Leeds 2023 accounts their annual income from central funding went down from £1.9 million to £1.5 million. Incidentally Leeds lost £1.5m
in 2023 but have a healthy balance sheet at £11.4m net assets because they own the ground from which they make loads of additional revenue - catering, hotel, rental etc. The directors even get paid (£439k in total).
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Fax's financial performance over the last 10 years is as follows:
2023 - Loss (£191,974)
2022 - Loss (£316,827)
2021 - Loss (£83,255)
2020 - Profit £171,077
2019 - Profit £56,191
2018 - Profit £463
2017 - Loss (£7,187)
2016 - Profit £80,343
2015 - Loss (£39,173)
2014 - Loss (£135,685)
I think the lucrative "qualifiers" didn't start until 2015, but I stand to be corrected. I just remember 2014 as the season Karl Harrison was sacked and we lost a play off match 29-0 against Dewsbury at the Shay with Muzza as interim coach.
The big profit in 2020 was during covid when the players were furloughed (so claimed back their wages) and many fans didn't ask for season ticket refunds despite the lock down.
The CC semi against Saints probably contributed to a 2019 profit.
Quite obvious though that the loss of central funding (or significant decrease - I've no idea how it's distributed to the Championship clubs, if at all, since the SL pigs have their snouts in the trough) is a killer. Desperately need the Championship to get some big sponsor but very unlikely without some sort of TV coverage - even a "scrumdown" type programme with Channel 4 would help, not too much to ask!
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4571 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Tony Fax "Fax's financial performance over the last 10 years is as follows
As before the Champ & Champ 1 clubs will find out this month how much CF they are allocated.
Media exposure through TV is a must to bring in sponsor ship with their names / logos being on display on the kit and around the stadium for the cameras.
Problem is not all clubs can agree on it, this years proposal was voted against by the likes of Bradford and Fev and although the RFL had the power to bring it anyway they chose not do so and upset there big buddies at the Bulls.
Gledhill made me laugh as when it was first announced he called it a great lucrative deal until his club voted against it because of fear of losing bums on seats then it quickly changed to a bad idea.
So we limp along on the sidelines in the ever lengthening shadows.
If only Simon Grix had stayed away or better still been a local footballer then it would be FC Town with all these problems .
Incidentally speaking to Dave Singer a lot recently who’s still avidly supporting Town and he sends his regards.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Quote: faxcar "
Gledhill made me laugh as when it was first announced he called it a great lucrative deal until his club voted against it because of fear of losing bums on seats then it quickly changed to a bad idea.
Why would Bradford and Fev vote against a lucrative deal, and why would it have lost bums on seats?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4571 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
|
Quote: Tony Fax "Why would Bradford and Fev vote against a lucrative deal, and why would it have lost bums on seats?'"
Because they thought people would stay at home instead of going and paying through the turnstiles but they weren’t the only ones with the league being split.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... urfk5bo51f
|
|
Quote: Tony Fax "Why would Bradford and Fev vote against a lucrative deal, and why would it have lost bums on seats?'"
Because they thought people would stay at home instead of going and paying through the turnstiles but they weren’t the only ones with the league being split.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... urfk5bo51f
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Quote: faxcar "Because they thought people would stay at home instead of going and paying through the turnstiles but they weren’t the only ones with the league being split.
I thought Bradford gave away free tickets anyway!
Looking at last weekend's attendances, I really don't think they can get much lower even if streamed.
Fev's crowds seem to be falling off a cliff - 1,345 against Barrow.
Swinton attracted just 1,048 against SL wanabees Wakey who would most likely have taken a few hundred.
Toulouse got 2,079 against Sheffield in a top of the table clash.
Donny got 1,443 against Fax.
The biggest laugh was 3,006 given at Bradford against Dewsbury. I say laugh, because watching the highlights the terracing behind the sticks was empty, the seating stand opposite looked to have 200 tops, so almost 3k must have been in the terracing below the camera. Hmmmm ... maybe a Bulls fan would care to verify this?
Batley and Haven didn't disclose their crowds, but they're usually in the mid hundreds.
If anything, an interested armchair fan watching a streamed match may be tempted to actually attend the next time round if he/she liked what they saw.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4571 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Tony Fax "I thought Bradford gave away free tickets anyway!
Looking at last weekend's attendances, I really don't think they can get much lower even if streamed.
Fev's crowds seem to be falling off a cliff - 1,345 against Barrow.
Swinton attracted just 1,048 against SL wanabees Wakey who would most likely have taken a few hundred.
Toulouse got 2,079 against Sheffield in a top of the table clash.
Donny got 1,443 against Fax.
The biggest laugh was 3,006 given at Bradford against Dewsbury. I say laugh, because watching the highlights the terracing behind the sticks was empty, the seating stand opposite looked to have 200 tops, so almost 3k must have been in the terracing below the camera. Hmmmm ... maybe a Bulls fan would care to verify this?
Batley and Haven didn't disclose their crowds, but they're usually in the mid hundreds.
If anything, an interested armchair fan watching a streamed match may be tempted to actually attend the next time round if he/she liked what they saw.'"
Just posting what I’d read and included the link.
On attending where you had to pay I’m sure I read someone somewhere had been put off by the admission prices and was now becoming a armchair fan.
I think the user name was something like Foney Tax or similar.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 9526 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
|
| Quote: Tony Fax "I thought Bradford gave away free tickets anyway!
Looking at last weekend's attendances, I really don't think they can get much lower even if streamed.
Fev's crowds seem to be falling off a cliff - 1,345 against Barrow.
Swinton attracted just 1,048 against SL wanabees Wakey who would most likely have taken a few hundred.
Toulouse got 2,079 against Sheffield in a top of the table clash.
Donny got 1,443 against Fax.
The biggest laugh was 3,006 given at Bradford against Dewsbury. I say laugh, because watching the highlights the terracing behind the sticks was empty, the seating stand opposite looked to have 200 tops, so almost 3k must have been in the terracing below the camera. Hmmmm ... maybe a Bulls fan would care to verify this?
Batley and Haven didn't disclose their crowds, but they're usually in the mid hundreds.
If anything, an interested armchair fan watching a streamed match may be tempted to actually attend the next time round if he/she liked what they saw.'"
Its hard to see the game continuing as semi professional at this level, teams losing money hand over fist. I think our average is down around 400-500 or so from previous seasons and the Wakefield game was the lowest attendance I have seen from Fax fans in a long time. Without a money man most teams are basically insolvent unless they are fortunate enough to own their own ground.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 6605 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
|
| Quote: faxcar "Just posting what I’d read and included the link.
On attending where you had to pay I’m sure I read someone somewhere had been put off by the admission prices and was now becoming a armchair fan.
I think the user name was something like Foney Tax or similar.
Too right, faxcar, , even though I don't think I'll ever become a 100% armchair fan unless the admission continues to go up!
But alas, I'm not immortal and one day I would hope I will be replaced by a "new" fax fan when I'm finally laid to rest.. But that's where I think the "churn" has now hit a brick wall. I reckon there's about 1,300 all weather fax fans left. How many of those are new in the past 10 years do you reckon? Anyone's guess. 100? 1,000? Hardly any IMO.
Not just Fax. Look at the attendances. Fev! Sheffield! Even Widnes struggle to break 2k.
Haven will be the first. Then wait for the rest .........................
|
|
|
|
|
|