FORUMS > Halifax Panthers > Accounts |
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287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
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| Quote: faxcar "Any mentioned of Swinton receiving an initial loan of £100 grand from Salford Council with another one for the same amount being approved and to follow?
The accounts are for the year ended 30/11/2023 so the loan has happened after the year end. Loans as at 30/11/23 = £61k and doesn't say who owed to. The odd thing about Swinton's accounts is the average number of employees for the year is 6 (28 the year before) so I wonder if the players are self employed? Is that allowed? Fax had 33 employees. Employees will also include backroom staff and directors. Bradford's average number of employees was 133 ............... !!!!!
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Club Owner | 1276 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: Tony Fax "Bradford's 2023 accounts have finally appeared. No sign of the lease being capitalised. They made a profit of £22k but had net liabilities of £863k. I'm assuming they managed a profit through sponsorship income?
There is no related party note meaning the directors (or their businesses) mustn't be putting in their own money and the £1.3 million "other creditors" is coming from folk not associated directly with the club. Quite odd, if I was loaning the club loads of money I would want a seat on the BOD to make sure it's being spent wisely.'"
A significant portion of their debt will be owed to Andrew Chalmers: when he 'sold' the club to Wood and Co he said he wouldn't (ever) try to recoup it, but it didn't get written off
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13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
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| Quote: Tony Fax "The accounts are for the year ended 30/11/2023 so the loan has happened after the year end. Loans as at 30/11/23
Thats a weird one if they are self employed but under contract and how that would work with the minimum pay rules. They must be on some sort of retainer but will be saving the club a tidy sum in tax and NI payments.
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287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
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| Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "Thats a weird one if they are self employed but under contract and how that would work with the minimum pay rules. They must be on some sort of retainer but will be saving the club a tidy sum in tax and NI payments.'"
Doesn't make sense. There was a dispute between Leeds and the Tax man quite a few years back when certain Leeds players claimed they were self employed as they were selling their image rights rather than working (as a player) thus saving on not paying NI (employee and employer). Needless to say the Tax Man won. Other sports folk also tried it on, even Harry Gration on Look North and the Super League Show! So could be a tpo on the Swinton accounts. I'll dig out employee numbers on other clubs.
The latest club re 2023 accounts - Wigan. They lost £1.6 million and had net liabilities of £10.5 million, which included an asset of £2.2 million re the training ground at Orrell. They owed £9.4 million to ex director Ian Lenagan's company (he resigned last December). They had 119 employees (less than Bradford!).
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| Sounds as if the game is in rude health
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27802_1294412072.gif Oh hali hali hali hali halifax:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_27802.gif |
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| Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator
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13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
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| Quote: freddies wig "Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator'"
I thought the sky deal was reduced again last time but IMG are tasked with trying to improve it although it is never going to happen barring a miracle.
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287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
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| The last championship clubs' 2023 accounts I've dug out is Batley, for the time being, so 8 in total so far. They lost £227k and had net assets of £1.3 million because they own their ground included in fixed assets of £1.9 million. Of the other clubs - Barrow, Whitehaven, Featherstone and Doncaster have later filing deadlines (they may have tinkered around with their year end dates to extend the deadline), Toulouse of course being French don't file their accounts at Companies House, and cannot find Wakefield's new company name since Matthew Ellis took over so help appreciated tracking them down.
To summarise the 8 clubs so far in order of balance sheet strength:
Batley - £1.3m net assets; £(227k) loss; 32 employees
Swinton - £75k net assets; £(60k) loss; 6 employees
Widnes - (£34k) net liabilities; (£280k) loss; 34 employees
Sheffield - (£209k) net liabilities; (£283k) loss; 30 employees
Dewsbury - (£345k) net liabilities; (£100k) loss; 42 employees
Halifax - (£540k) net liabilities; (£200k) loss; 33 employees
York - (£580k) net liabilities; (£380k) loss; 36 employees
Bradford - (£863k) net liabilities; £22k profit; 133 employees
So (so far) we're all basically skint. Wouldn't be surprised if Batley sold their ground to keep afloat. Despite it's ridiculous slope that really would be a tragedy.
I will add the others when they become available and finish the Super League clubs later. Might even have a look at League 1.
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13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
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| Quote: Tony Fax "The last championship clubs' 2023 accounts I've dug out is Batley, for the time being, so 8 in total so far. They lost £227k and had net assets of £1.3 million because they own their ground included in fixed assets of £1.9 million. Of the other clubs - Barrow, Whitehaven, Featherstone and Doncaster have later filing deadlines (they may have tinkered around with their year end dates to extend the deadline), Toulouse of course being French don't file their accounts at Companies House, and cannot find Wakefield's new company name since Matthew Ellis took over so help appreciated tracking them down.
'"
There is a chance that Wakey is Spirit of 1873.
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287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
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| Quote: Greg Florimos Boots "There is a chance that Wakey is Spirit of 1873.'"
Yes, good call Greg, I should have seen that as the old Wakefield Trinity company sold its assets to Spirit of 1873 before it got dissolved.
Wakefield's accounts obviously relate to when they were Super League in 2023 showing them making a profit of £2.7 million, but that included a grant from Wakefield Council for £1.6 million ans a shareholder loan write of of £1,275 million, so stripping them 2 out would show a small loss. They have net assets of £3.5 million but this includes nearly £14 million for the ground and other facilities but creditors include loans building the stuff. They're deferring some further council funding whilst the stadium has/is being constructed, but they look pretty strong nevertheless, that's what we've been competing against, not a cat in hell's chance!
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Pollsters doing Excellent job - say recent polls.: |
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| Thanks for this. Very interesting. Those clubs that have “squad builder” type support from the fans, how would that be shown in the accounts? If it’s shown at all? The only reason I’m asking is that the last few players Bradford have signed have all had the line “ and thanks must go to bullbuilder without which this signing would t happen “ . I don’t know how much they actually help in % terms, but it’s obviously helpful
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13050.gif [b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."― Albert Einstein[/size:112mouem] [/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense." ― Gertrude Stein[/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]
[b:112mouem][color=#0000FF:112mouem][size=100:112mouem]
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" ― Abraham Lincoln [/size:112mouem][/color:112mouem][/b:112mouem]:13050.gif |
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| Quote: Highlander "Thanks for this. Very interesting. Those clubs that have “squad builder” type support from the fans, how would that be shown in the accounts? If it’s shown at all? The only reason I’m asking is that the last few players Bradford have signed have all had the line “ and thanks must go to bullbuilder without which this signing would t happen “ . I don’t know how much they actually help in % terms, but it’s obviously helpful'"
Not 100% certain on this but they normally tend to be separate companies don't they? I presume money then handed over as donations may avoid tax implications.
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| Quote: freddies wig "Good job IMG negotiated an improved Sky TV deal to get more money into the game. Jeez. Why can’t our sport find one single good administrator'"
On the contrary, the SKY deal was revised down as from (and including) 2023. According to Leeds 2023 accounts their annual income from central funding went down from £1.9 million to £1.5 million. Incidentally Leeds lost £1.5m
in 2023 but have a healthy balance sheet at £11.4m net assets because they own the ground from which they make loads of additional revenue - catering, hotel, rental etc. The directors even get paid (£439k in total).
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287.jpg AM I RIGHT? I'M NOT WRONG!:287.jpg |
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| Fax's financial performance over the last 10 years is as follows:
2023 - Loss (£191,974)
2022 - Loss (£316,827)
2021 - Loss (£83,255)
2020 - Profit £171,077
2019 - Profit £56,191
2018 - Profit £463
2017 - Loss (£7,187)
2016 - Profit £80,343
2015 - Loss (£39,173)
2014 - Loss (£135,685)
I think the lucrative "qualifiers" didn't start until 2015, but I stand to be corrected. I just remember 2014 as the season Karl Harrison was sacked and we lost a play off match 29-0 against Dewsbury at the Shay with Muzza as interim coach.
The big profit in 2020 was during covid when the players were furloughed (so claimed back their wages) and many fans didn't ask for season ticket refunds despite the lock down.
The CC semi against Saints probably contributed to a 2019 profit.
Quite obvious though that the loss of central funding (or significant decrease - I've no idea how it's distributed to the Championship clubs, if at all, since the SL pigs have their snouts in the trough) is a killer. Desperately need the Championship to get some big sponsor but very unlikely without some sort of TV coverage - even a "scrumdown" type programme with Channel 4 would help, not too much to ask!
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| Quote: Tony Fax "Fax's financial performance over the last 10 years is as follows
As before the Champ & Champ 1 clubs will find out this month how much CF they are allocated.
Media exposure through TV is a must to bring in sponsor ship with their names / logos being on display on the kit and around the stadium for the cameras.
Problem is not all clubs can agree on it, this years proposal was voted against by the likes of Bradford and Fev and although the RFL had the power to bring it anyway they chose not do so and upset there big buddies at the Bulls.
Gledhill made me laugh as when it was first announced he called it a great lucrative deal until his club voted against it because of fear of losing bums on seats then it quickly changed to a bad idea.
So we limp along on the sidelines in the ever lengthening shadows.
If only Simon Grix had stayed away or better still been a local footballer then it would be FC Town with all these problems .
Incidentally speaking to Dave Singer a lot recently who’s still avidly supporting Town and he sends his regards.
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