I'm glad i've read someone saying they understand why LW isn't in the team. It was blindingly obvious that it wasn't a day for him. You need wingers who will make metres on a boggy pitch, LW isn't built for that.

I disagree when Simon said in his post match interview that he didn't bring Jouffret on because Brandon was ok out there and didn't need to come off. Brandon was blowing for the last 20 minutes and made some poor judgements out of dummy half causing our halves to play some silly passes as Widnes' defence were already in their faces.

I think all in all it came down to poor kicking, ill discipline and individual errors (Many have already said this). These games happen unfortunately but we have to turn up at Workington next week.

Having a mobile pack is all well and good if the conditions are right but you can’t hang around waiting for warmer weather and drier pitches.

In winter conditions you either get field position by yardage from the pack or by kicking well and we aren’t doing either well enough.

Like Terry posted you need a balance between size and mobility and we haven’t got the size.
Workington this weekend and once again the above will be put to the test, if we fail again then SG has to do something about it.

I don't feel the forwards were the problem. We got outclassed in the halfbacks. Their kicking game was superior.
Calcott , fairbank , gwaze and Murray held their own.
We had a big lump in K Hirst. He was sluggish and didn't play enough minutes.
By the way thought widnes were lucky not to have had Lawton sent off.

Keegan was a world beater when at Fax according to some on here.

The pack has held it’s own to a degree but the point is it’s supposed to get on top of the opposition.
To do that you add to what you already have, in our case, fitness, big minutes, mobility with some size and punch.
And if we’re going to choose a “big lump” why not a Mitch Cahalane or a Gadwin Springer and then say we wouldn’t be a better, stronger side right now with them in the side.

INOUT

The whole the pack isn't big enough is misleading. No pack is ever dominant all of the time and games have momentum shifts that directly effects yardage. I think some people still live in the era of that Bulls monster back of Fielden, Anderson, Vagan etc. The forwards game has evolved since then and forwards can make yardage for more than just size. Eliott Morris is a classic example of just quick feet at the line which gets him easy meters. The pack isn't small. They are all 6 feet. I mean the best prop in the world is James Fisher-Harris @ Penrith is only 6'1. John Bateman was the best second-rower in the world at Canberra and he is hardly a monster. Sunday was a 50/50. You can pick hairs but if our pack was so dwarfed, Widnes would have won more comfortably.

Where did anyone say the whole pack wasn’t big enough, small or was so dwarfed?
Those words were never said or implied.
What was said was add to what you have some size or punch.
Someone who can break the line and get some space to play against a retreating defence which by the way we haven’t done, it’s mainly been tit for tat in the middle of the park.
You can pick hairs but if we did have that bit extra size or punch as explained above Widnes wouldn’t have won by any score.

You certainly are implying about size but don't we all


I do get your point about that line-busting forward but they are few and far between in our division at least. Springer was that type of player but that came to nothing. I do miss that Cahlhane type of prop as he had everything but hopefully, when Matty Gee is fit, I think he can give us some dimension.

So the reality is we are three matches in and we are all reevaluating potential league positions . Fev look very good and leigh look to be emerging as the next contenders . For me it looks like fax for mid table but get better on drier pitches as the team gels . Workington will probably be a 60s mudbath, I fear by the end of this weeks rain. I seem to remember going to a cup match workington v fax years ago early 90s? Standing in the bottom corner not able to tell the shirt colours wondering why on earth I had driven 3hrs to watch that mud feast .
.

Sorry but you are still misquoting people and your entire first post was built on misquotes and “straw man” arguments.
To be clear.
I did not imply that the whole of the pack were either too small, not big enough or were dwarfed as you posted.
I did not imply anything about size/punch, it was a clear statement and I will repeat it.
Our current pack would benefit by having the likes of Gadwin in there based on what is evident now on the field.
We hardly break the line and have little second phase or field position from that section of the team in winter conditions, fact.
How anyone can make a connection to yesteryear and Bradford and state that is where some people are living is total garbage, can you read peoples minds?
Do you honestly think we are at a game in 2022 and giving even a nanoseconds thought to Vagana, Feilden or anything to do with Bradford? And you say others are misleading


SG himself on the one hand acknowledges the threat of size/punch on his assessment of the opposition in his prematch interviews when he says they are a big bunch of lads or have a big pack but for some reason doesn’t add that threat to the side!!
And you have to be at least looking before your going to find that type of player.


Unfortunately the most likely source will be on DR from Huddersfield.
A simple point of example from our own team is Ed Barber.
Ed as a lot of qualities but one of the primary reasons he has stand out games when he plays in the centres is that extra bit of size that punches through the line, often with an offload, second phase, field position, points etc etc.

Relax pal, you have an opinion and as do I. No need to dissect the argument. It's early days and little can we learn.