FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Historical sexual abuse charges... |
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| I think he will appeal sentence and it will be found unduly harsh and reduced.
He may even try and appeal verdicts. But you can't just appeal a decision because you don't like it. There has to be a reason.
I doubt there was anything wrong in law or procedure, so he will probably try and argue perverse verdicts (i.e. verdicts not properly supported by evidence).
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67401_1399996203.jpg Beneath the rule of men entirely great, the pen is mightier than the sword.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67401.jpg |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "I think he will appeal sentence and it will be found unduly harsh and reduced.
He may even try and appeal verdicts. But you can't just appeal a decision because you don't like it. There has to be a reason.
I doubt there was anything wrong in law or procedure, so he will probably try and argue perverse verdicts (i.e. verdicts not properly supported by evidence).'"
In what way is it unduly harsh. His actions have had a profound effect on his victims for years. There is also the issue now of further victims. When you compare to Stuart Hall as many have done this is not harsh. He forced his victims through a lengthy trial and has been found guilty. I am sure some will argue its lenient.
He should accept his fate and go quietly.
Though I do expect an appeal or two.
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "How often are sentences served consecutively? Isn't the normal practice to have all served at the same time? IMO it makes more sense to properly punish criminals for their crimes but as far as I was aware concurrent sentencing was how most people are dealt with.'"
It is fairly common for there to be consecutive sentences where there are multiple victims to enable those victims to know what the punishment is for the crimes against them individually.
In the case of the 15 year old, for example, it is clear from the sentencing remarks that Clifford got 4.5 years for those offences. That victim can now hopefully get some closure and move on in the certain knowledge of the sentence that her abuser will serve in relation to her.
Given that the judge said he would have passed a sentence of not less than 8 years for one particular count alone under modern guidelines then Clifford can consider himself lucky that it's the totality for all counts.
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| Quote: Derwent "It is fairly common for there to be consecutive sentences where there are multiple victims to enable those victims to know what the punishment is for the crimes against them individually.
In the case of the 15 year old, for example, it is clear from the sentencing remarks that Clifford got 4.5 years for those offences. That victim can now hopefully get some closure and move on in the certain knowledge of the sentence that her abuser will serve in relation to her.
Given that the judge said he would have passed a sentence of not less than 8 years for one particular count alone under modern guidelines then Clifford can consider himself lucky that it's the totality for all counts.'"
If multiple offenses are committed as part of a single incident, they are sentenced concurrently even if there are multiple victims. If the offenses are committed in clearly separate incidents they can be sentenced consecutively.
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7384_1394882426.png [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/14252202:io879g1y]2005 Challenge Cup[/url:io879g1y]
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| Quote: Lord God Jose Mourinho "Is that 10 years for his vile, nasty story peddling with 2 years taken off for the stress of this stupid trial?
I haven't been watching his trial very much. Just the occasional story here and there. But from what I read it was all ridiculous nonsense. Supposedly showing his tiny penis and joking about how small it was while asking women to go to bed with him.
Anyone got an idea of the serious attack he's supposed to have done to get himself 8 years? I just hope he hasn't got 8 years for stupid nonsense like that ^^^^^. But I don't have that much faith in the British justice system so I wouldn't put it past them to give him a ridiculous sentence even without a serious assault.'"
Read the sentencing remarks linked via the BBC news report
Edit - and linked above
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| Some nutters on the radio saying the law should be amended retrospectively to ensure longer sentences for people like Clifford.
Aside from possible breaches of the Human Rights Act and Magna Carta etc...
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To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7384.png |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "Some nutters on the radio '"
That's basically 5Live's phone in every day.
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| It is all well and good that Clifford has gone down for what he did.
I do think that the CPS are out to get some people though. Look at the Nigel Evans case, he made a few drunken passes at people and ended up in court. DLT seems to have been pinching a few bums. If everybody who'd done these things in the past were prosecuted then we'd run out of courtrooms.
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67401_1399996203.jpg Beneath the rule of men entirely great, the pen is mightier than the sword.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67401.jpg |
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| Quote: wigan_rlfc "It is all well and good that Clifford has gone down for what he did.
I do think that the CPS are out to get some people though. Look at the Nigel Evans case, he made a few drunken passes at people and ended up in court. DLT seems to have been pinching a few bums. If everybody who'd done these things in the past were prosecuted then we'd run out of courtrooms.'"
If there is any criticism to be thrown at the CPS and Police it's probably as a result of the publics reaction to the authorities inaction previously. There will always be people who say those charged have been victimised especially when found not guilty. It's then easy to say its the CPS being heavy handed. But equally if they don't charge then people will say they get away with it because of who they are.
So you can understand how sometimes they decide its best for a jury to decide. That way accusers can have their say. Those accused can have theirs and the jury decide. That's the fair system of justice we have.
The CPS in many cases (not just celebrity sex cases) decide there are to be no charges and no further action. People forget that conveniently. Jails are also full at the moment of people who have been successfully prosecuted. (You can argue about the rights and wrongs of that elsewhere).
It's so easy to sit with a laptop and state you feel the CPS are this that and the other, but without a full case file in front of you it's very difficult to state things as fact.
I'm am sure that if things were as easy as the CPS gunning for every "personality" accused of an offence Southwark crown court would be rammed with cases involving "celebrities"
As an example how many footballers are accused of offences? How many actually get charged. This might highlight deficiencies in the evidence gathering or it might simply be that accusers are falsely accusing, we don't know. But I am sure if the CPS agenda was simply to get celebrities in the dock we would get different outcomes.
DLT is accused by several different people. He's been found not guilty of most of his charges. But undecided on others. He will rightly or wrongly I'm not sure (as I don't have all the facts) face a further trial. Let's let the jury decide. Patting bums and grabbing breasts has different effects on different people. The time that it occurred (if it did) is irrelevant. It was an offence then as it's an offence now. It was maybe tolerated more then as women did not feel as empowered as they do now to complain. Does that make it ok? It's that attitude that allowed Savile and Co to prosper. Allegedly.
The CPS are far from perfect. They are seriously overworked with the resources they have. They are constantly under public scrutiny and will always come under criticism. It's easy to state what you have but you have to be balanced in your statement.
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973_1515165968.gif Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif |
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| Quote: wigan_rlfc "..Look at the Nigel Evans case, he made a few drunken passes at people and ended up in court. ...'"
Entertaining it was, though. Evidence was given by Lembit Opik that the accuser had once called him a "fscking dikc-head" and by John Bercow that she had once called him a "cn [size.[/sizeut". In his summing up, the judge confused the two claims, at which point one of the QCs rose to his feet and pointed out to the judge "Mr. Opik is merely a fscking dikc-head, mi lud, it is Mr Bercow who is the cn [size.[/sizeut".
"Ah, thank you Mr. Wright", said the judge.
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| There'll be a few squeaky bums leading up to July 1st. rlMP will name politician involved in child sex abuserl
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| Quote: @airlie_bird "It was an offence then as it's an offence now. It was maybe tolerated more then as women did not feel as empowered as they do now to complain. Does that make it ok? It's that attitude that allowed Savile and Co to prosper. Allegedly. '"
In my view its nothing to do with whether it was tolerated when it should not have been but whether or not a fair trail can be given after al this time.
This is what Wikipedia has to say about the concept of a Statute of Limitations and why they existThe purpose and effect of Statutes of Limitation is to protect defendants. [/i
[iThere are three reasons that support the existence of Statutes of Limitation, namely
While you could argue victims of sex abuse were never in a position to pursue claims with reasonable diligence I don't see how b) and c) don't apply. I'd certainly have a hard time accounting for what I was up to on specific dates 20 years ago and I think there is more than a whiff of c) in these claims being dragged up now.
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| Quote: The Video Ref "longer sentences for people like Clifford.'"
No sentence would be long enough for that little turd.
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| The problem with the CPS is that they are terrified of being critisised so they will run anything that involves sex offences.
I seem to recall that 2 of the complainants (I hesitate to use the term 'victims') in the DLT trial were proven lairs. As in their evidence was proven to be a complete load of bollox.
There was also the trial of the bloke from Corrie (or was it Eastenders), whos name I forget (I don't watch that rubbish). Decision taken by Chief Crown Prosecutor for north west not to proceed owing to complete lack of evidence, later reviewed in London by Allison Saunders, prior to her becoming DPP, and decision made to run the case.
Goes to court....no evidence...not guilty verdicts.
All men are barstewards, all 'victims' must be believed no matter how incredible or unreliable their evidence.
The police and CPS need to be far more robust in assessing who is a genuine victim, and who is just out for a large compo payment.
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| It's a complete whitewash to spend money compiling reports on the Savile case, just to conclude that there were "systemic errors" and therefore no-one else can be individually held accountable apart from the dead guy.
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