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Quote: Sal Paradise "Racism has been alive and kicking in this country it is no worse since the vote than it was before a few isolated cases make it bit more visible.

Why shouldn't the judges be criticised are they above it? Plenty of press calling when EU law was used to prevent Abu from extradition.

The quality of MPs is at an all time low and the public are not fools - they don't want to be told what is best for them by a bunch self interested incompetents with very questionable behaviours.

Corbyn is prepared to go against the flow the fact his ideas are barmy is besides the point.'"


There are two problems with that criticism of the judges, imo.

Firstly, a good deal of it was personal rather than based on the legal correctness of decision. Even if we assume that being in public life makes somebody fair game, then at best these members of the press were missing the point. If the press think the law is bad, as many did with the EU extradition thing, criticisize the law not the judges. Of course, if they think the law had been poorly interpreted that's a different matter, but I didn't see that argument, so presumably it was weak. Or chucking vitriol is easier and shifts more copies.

Secondly, an independent judiciary is bound is by the law, not (directly) the will of the people. Democracy isn't a trump card in all constitutional matters.

That many judges are over privileged wazzocks, I'd accept. But that doesn't necessarily make their decisions wrong.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Racism has been alive and kicking in this country it is no worse since the vote than it was before a few isolated cases make it bit more visible.

Why shouldn't the judges be criticised are they above it? Plenty of press calling when EU law was used to prevent Abu from extradition.

The quality of MPs is at an all time low and the public are not fools - they don't want to be told what is best for them by a bunch self interested incompetents with very questionable behaviours.

Corbyn is prepared to go against the flow the fact his ideas are barmy is besides the point.'"


Your first point is utter nonesense.

There has been a huge change in attitudes, both during and post referendum and to brush the increase in racist comments aside as "isolated cases" is quite worrying in itself.
The whole tone used by Farage was divisive and bordering on racist, indeed, he has apologised for some of his own comments, for being over the top.
Whilst all of the mud slinging during the campaign may make decent newspaper headlines, we all have to move on and live together after the dust has settled and this has been made far more difficult over the past 6 month or so.
Unless you are one the many people at the sharp end of the comments, it's difficult to know exactly what it is like to be an immigrant in the UK.
Regarding the Judges, of course it's ok to question them but, they rule on points of law and they are and have to be outside the political world.
The British press are the main protagonists of our brave new world. However, unfortunately, there is so much bias, both in the manner which they report the new and the agenda that their owners are working towards that, most of the news, reported in the daily papers is nothing more than their personal propaganda.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Racism has been alive and kicking in this country it is no worse since the vote than it was before a few isolated cases make it bit more visible.'"


Hate crimes rose by 41% the month after Brexit.

Quote: Sal Paradise "Why shouldn't the judges be criticised are they above it? Plenty of press calling when EU law was used to prevent Abu from extradition.'"


The Daily Mail were calling the three High Court Judges enemies of the people.

Quote: Sal Paradise "The quality of MPs is at an all time low and the public are not fools - they don't want to be told what is best for them by a bunch self interested incompetents with very questionable behaviours.

Corbyn is prepared to go against the flow the fact his ideas are barmy is besides the point.'"


The quality of our M.P's & the Labour leaders views are surely irrelevant as to whether we leave the E.U or not?

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "Hate crimes rose by 41% the month after Brexit.

The Daily Mail were calling the three High Court Judges enemies of the people.

The quality of our M.P's & the Labour leaders views are surely irrelevant as to whether we leave the E.U or not?'"


We don't hear much about it now - race violence seems to have returned to usual levels. I would suggest there is significant amounts of inter-immigrant violence - how much of that was in your 41%

The quality of the MPs has everything to do with us leaving the EU - the vote was as much a protest vote against the establishment as anything. You have arrogant Labour MPs David Lamy who has come out and said he knows best, can the vote. No wonder these guys are so despised.

The majority of those who voted wanted us to leave the EU if that doesn't happen on a technicality of the law then democracy will take a blow and it eventually back fire.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "We don't hear much about it now - race violence seems to have returned to usual levels. I would suggest there is significant amounts of inter-immigrant violence - how much of that was in your 41%

The quality of the MPs has everything to do with us leaving the EU - the vote was as much a protest vote against the establishment as anything. You have arrogant Labour MPs David Lamy who has come out and said he knows best, can the vote. No wonder these guys are so despised.

The majority of those who voted wanted us to leave the EU if that doesn't happen on a technicality of the law then democracy will take a blow and it eventually back fire.'"


Back to point 1.

Again, really ??
So you think that all of the racists and bigots that, following the referendum vote, thought it was ok to tell people to "go home", have suddenly realised the error of their ways and stopped, WOW. d040.gif

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Back to point 1.

Again, really ??
So you think that all of the racists and bigots that, following the referendum vote, thought it was ok to tell people to "go home", have suddenly realised the error of their ways and stopped, WOW.
No I don't those people were racists/bigots before the vote - the vote didn't suddenly give them clarity of thought and purpose.

The vote gave them a platform for a few weeks that has gone away - business as usual.

I see quite the opposite a focus on making sure those already here are able to remain after we exit the EU - much greater ground swell of opinion to deliver on that than those wanting to send them all home.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "No I don't those people were racists/bigots before the vote - the vote didn't suddenly give them clarity of thought and purpose.

The vote gave them a platform for a few weeks that has gone away - business as usual.

I see quite the opposite a focus on making sure those already here are able to remain after we exit the EU - much greater ground swell of opinion to deliver on that than those wanting to send them all home.'"


Spot on.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "The quality of the MPs has everything to do with us leaving the EU - the vote was as much a protest vote against the establishment as anything. You have arrogant Labour MPs David Lamy who has come out and said he knows best, can the vote. No wonder these guys are so despised.

The majority of those who voted wanted us to leave the EU if that doesn't happen on a technicality of the law then democracy will take a blow and it eventually back fire.'"


You're kind of floating a mixed message here.

On the one hand your saying people voted to leave the E.U. as a protest against the establishment, then it's about wanting to leave the E.U.

Either way the majority of those that voted will get their wish, but they still voted the same way as a member of U.K.I.P.

Respect.

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "You're kind of floating a mixed message here.

On the one hand your saying people voted to leave the E.U. as a protest against the establishment, then it's about wanting to leave the E.U.

Either way the majority of those that voted will get their wish, but they still voted the same way as a member of U.K.I.P.

Respect.'"


17.4million voted to leave for a combination of different reasons and many of these had made their minds up well before the referendum and include voters from all the different parties. This number could well have been higher but for the establishment orchestrated Project Fear campaign which must have had some success as the Leave side never offered any positive reasons to stay and the EU is crumbling before our eyes.

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Quote: Juan Cornetto "17.4million voted to leave for a combination of different reasons and many of these had made their minds up well before the referendum and include voters from all the different parties. This number could well have been higher but for the establishment orchestrated Project Fear campaign which must have had some success as the Leave side never offered any positive reasons to stay and the EU is crumbling before our eyes.'"


Equally, the figure could have been a whole lot lower , had it not been for the lies trotted out by Farage's team.
We're all waiting for the cash injection into the NHS that will never materialise (certainly ano as a result of any savings on EU contributions).
Also, had the remain team not used Cameron and Osborne, two good reasons for voting "the other way".
Project Fear vs Project fingers crossed

Most of us are still waiting for the good news to come.

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The panic surrounding Brexit is simply inane. At the end of the day the UK will sink or swim on its own merits and by selling goods / services the rest of the world wants to buy. Being in or out of the EU will make no difference to that. Arguably we are better placed out, especially as we were not members of the Eurozone and therefore had virtually no influence inside the EU.

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Quote: Dally "The panic surrounding Brexit is simply inane. At the end of the day the UK will sink or swim on its own merits and by selling goods / services the rest of the world wants to buy. Being in or out of the EU will make no difference to that. Arguably we are better placed out, especially as we were not members of the Eurozone and therefore had virtually no influence inside the EU.'"


You may be right but, unless you have a crystal ball (something which the UK government could do with) and can tell people what is likely to happen with the imports and exports to and from the EU and can guarantee the status of the millions of citizens who will be directly affected by whatever decision is finally agreed, your statement is just on of pure optimism, without anything to back it up.
I keep hoping to win the lottery but, it hasn't happened yet.

Of course, longre term, say 10 years down the line, we will all have found a new level and status within the world but, NOBODY can say whether this will be vetter or worse than it is now.

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Well, at least Ian Brady is cheesed off with the High Court ruling. (There's some top folk advocating Brexit aren't there)

Murderer Brady also made a shocking attack on the High Court’s ruling that the British Government must get Parliament's approval before proceeding with Brexit talks.

He wrote

Every cloud and all that - except for a mushroom cloud of course.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Equally, the figure could have been a whole lot lower , had it not been for the lies trotted out by Farage's team.
We're all waiting for the cash injection into the NHS that will never materialise (certainly ano as a result of any savings on EU contributions).
Also, had the remain team not used Cameron and Osborne, two good reasons for voting "the other way".
Project Fear vs Project fingers crossed

Most of us are still waiting for the good news to come.'"


The red bus was nothing to do with Farage and you will have to wait for the good news until after we have left as we are stuck with the crumbling union until then.

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rlVideo evidence emerges of Nigel Farage pledging EU millions for NHS weeks before Brexit voterl

Quote: "“Can we just get to the truth of this - £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that,” '"


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