What make me say that (make a direct comparison between Italy/Greece and Zimbabwe) is the regular devaluation of currency, coupled with government's who "aren't the best" at collecting tax revenues, leading to further devaluation of currency and so on and so on.
You may not remember the days of becoming a "lira millionaire" , such was the state of Italy's own currency.
My point here being that, outside of a more financially controlled environment, both of these nations would be significantly behind where they are now.
FWIW, I believe that Italy has the potential to be a reasonably wealthy nation but, perhaps needs stronger government, Greece on the other hand is a vision of what an independent Scotland may look like.

Agreed - good points

After reading Chancellor Sajid Javid's comments this morning, I decided to resurrect this thread.

At least he's now telling us that there will be winners and losers.
However, the comment that really got me was him telling us that "companies need to be prepared".
Unfortunately, despite being 3 years down the track, NOBODY knows what Brexit will look like.

Personally, I think we will be out with no deal at the end of the year and already, Javid has said that we will no longer be aligning ourselves to EU rules and regs, which will make life very interesting for 1000's of manufacturers and suppliers both to and from the EU and you have to wonder what he has in mind.

Also, he is promising growth of 2.7 /2.8% next year, almost double the BoE forecast, which based on recent figures looks extremely optimistic.

On a lighter note, I was wondering whether the contributors on here were planning anything on the 31st?

Maybe you’ll raise a glass to our new un-told freedom, or perhaps you’re digging out the crack pipe to dampen the despair?

Personally I think I’ll give all news feeds a miss on the day. I couldn’t bear to see the likes of Farage, Francois, Et al grinning all over the T.V.

So, what will it be, celebration, wake, or total indifference?

Ateotd it is only the EU, a fairly distant entity that had limited noticeable impact on my day to day life. Happy to move on and let the winners have their prize.

The most noticeable difference for me between the Johnson government and the Cameron/May governments (and any Tory government before!) is the overt detachment from the government to the business community. The rhetoric (in line with Boris' earlier "feck business" quote) has for the first time become hostile to businesses. Andrea Leadsome has ended her weekly meetings with representatives of the business community as she's unhappy that they are not supportive enough of the government's approach on Brexit. Sajid is now saying "well they've had 3 years to get ready for Brexit".

Now, I expect there will still be certain businesses who have the government's ear - those owned by donors to the Conservative party and large employers in marginal constituencies - but the change now is the government's detachment to the representatives of the business community in general, eg the CBI, Federation for Small Businesses, and industry groups. It's very un-Conservative and reflects a shift away from the Conservatives being the 'party of business' to being a nationalist-populist group looking to cement its support in socially conservative communities, based on looking tough on Europe, crime and immigration.

While Labour were led by Corbyn, they could also enjoy the residual support of even businesses that were unsettled at the Tory approach, because they feared a Corbyn government. If Starmer or maybe Jess Phillips were to win the Labour leadership and position Labour more as a centre-left social democrat party going towards Blair territory, it would likely swing the business community behind Labour. That would be a blow to Johnson. He won't mind now, in fact they could just be another enemy to take on as part of the 'establishment', and he could try to appeal to ex Labour voters by saying "we're the party of people not business", but when the economy starts to turn and unemployment rises, if the business community lines up with the opposition you have a problem.

Sadly, whilst theres a reasonable awareness on social media of the impending disaster called Brexit, much of the MSM continues with the usual propaganda. I assume similar news control systems are put in place in most corrupt and failing societies.

You never fail to make me laugh with your ramblings.

That's a shame, I was actually hoping to stimulate the top part of your head.

continuously moaning that YOU LOST is tiresome, all it stimulates is boredom.

I think you'll find that all of us have either LOST or WON, because as Cameron once jokingly said, "we're all in this together".

This is my last ever reply to you, you are a broken record and cannot accept that you lost, it is as tragic as it is pathetic.

Enjoy your RL, at least that is something we all have in common.

What is tragic and pathetic is that "some" people cant discuss what is actually going to happen.
We leave the EU on 31st Jan - FACT

However, the important stuff has all still to be negotiated.
Everyone wants what is best for the future of the UK and we now have to trust Bojo and his crew to negotiate a decent outcome.
As we've seen, he's full of optimism and bravado but somewhat lacking in substance and the one certainty is that, the EU aren't just going to roll over - I dont think that they can afford to - therefore, it may be wise to keep your champagne on ice until there is something to actually celebrate.

No Champagne here (well it is French 3.0439453125:10