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Quote: Sal Paradise "Callaghan 269 seats - resigned
Kinnock 271 seats - resigned
Corbyn 262 seats - claims victory and orders the winner to resign

!!!'"


Its all about expectation, isnt it but, you know that.
And, if we're measuring result vs expectation, why is Mrs May still in charge ?

Many, including Mrs May, thought that Corbyn would be obliterated in the election but his stock rose sharply.
May on the other hand went from demanding a landslide victory, to strengthen her Brexit negotiating hand and she came away with sweet FA.
You can poke as much fun as you like at Corbyn and his supporters but, they are, by far, the happiest with the election result.
Remember, all their planning was for 2020 and yet they goy mighty close in 2017 icon_surprised.gifops:

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Its all about expectation, isnt it but, you know that.
And, if we're measuring result vs expectation, why is Mrs May still in charge ?

Many, including Mrs May, thought that Corbyn would be obliterated in the election but his stock rose sharply.
May on the other hand went from demanding a landslide victory, to strengthen her Brexit negotiating hand and she came away with sweet FA.
You can poke as much fun as you like at Corbyn and his supporters but, they are, by far, the happiest with the election result.
Remember, all their planning was for 2020 and yet they goy mighty close in 2017
They lost by 60 seats icon_biggrin.gif - but you knew that. That fact that cannot be ignored - do you honestly think he Tories will run such a bad campaign again and do you think Mrs May will be fronting it? What more can offer to give away next time?

He had an open goal and didn't just miss he missed by a mile - the Corbyn project is dead in the water now. A more centralist Labour party under Burnham/Cooper could easily win. Depends who is leading the Tories, how Brexit goes and how much they soften their views on austerity. They know what Corbyn is all about know is better the devil you know.

The only good thing to come out of this election is the clipping of the wings of Queen Nicola icon_biggrin.gif

If they do invest some more in Health and education then Labour are scuppered - if they want to stay in power then they have to do that.

The dementia tax is a strange one - if you go into residential care they take your house to pay for it - this has been the case since 1948 under all parties - so I don't know why this came as such a shock. Before you have a go I don't agree with it in either case its wrong.

What is funny is you have a man spouting inequality who comes from a very privileged background, privately educated, never had a proper job outside of politics and lives in an expensive suburb of London!! It beggers belief

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Quote: Sal Paradise "

What is funny is you have a man spouting inequality who comes from a very privileged background, privately educated, never had a proper job outside of politics and lives in an expensive suburb of London!! It beggers belief'"


Cant disagree with this although, it's a good job that some of our politicians are fighting for people who have very little.
Mrs May, despite all of her hot air (we're getting used to that now), really doesn't give a damn about those in need or the "jams".
It made a decent line in her various spoutings of hot air, yet, her actions have been somewhat different to the spoken word.

She is happy to tell the public sector workers, who have recently gone above and beyond their duty, that 1% is plenty and to give them very little hope of any increase in their salaries.
It must really make them feel good when she praises their actions after telling them how little they are worth.

I've no problem with anyone championing the cause of those who have least, no matter where they have come from.

I'm sure that we would love to have a working class hero running the country but, that will never happen.

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One of the main reasons I voted Conservatives was from a purely selfish commercial point of view as Labour promised to increase Corporation tax drastically.

I am interested to understand what the reasons people voted Labour for was. Not including Austerity and Brexit, what other reasons did people vote for Labour?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Cant disagree with this although, it's a good job that some of our politicians are fighting for people who have very little.
Mrs May, despite all of her hot air (we're getting used to that now), really doesn't give a damn about those in need or the "jams".
It made a decent line in her various spoutings of hot air, yet, her actions have been somewhat different to the spoken word.

She is happy to tell the public sector workers, who have recently gone above and beyond their duty, that 1% is plenty and to give them very little hope of any increase in their salaries.
It must really make them feel good when she praises their actions after telling them how little they are worth.

I've no problem with anyone championing the cause of those who have least, no matter where they have come from.

I'm sure that we would love to have a working class hero running the country but, that will never happen.'"


There appears to be a notion that salary increases should be a given and that that is the norm in the private sector. That is far from the case - I would suggest there are plenty of people working in the private sector that would have loved to have had a 1% increase compounded for 7 years. The notion that the public sector is worse off than all the workers in the private sector is a fallacy propagated by the likes of Corbyn.

What is the civil service offering in increased productivity for its annual salary increases?

Increases in pay should be self funding otherwise you are in the departure lounge of oblivion.

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So maybe NHS staff are due a bigger pay rise than 1%?

theconversation.com/nhs-outpaces ... ains-53899
So maybe NHS staff are due a bigger pay rise than 1%?

theconversation.com/nhs-outpaces ... ains-53899


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Quote: Sal Paradise "There appears to be a notion that salary increases should be a given and that that is the norm in the private sector. That is far from the case - I would suggest there are plenty of people working in the private sector that would have loved to have had a 1% increase compounded for 7 years. The notion that the public sector is worse off than all the workers in the private sector is a fallacy propagated by the likes of Corbyn.

What is the civil service offering in increased productivity for its annual salary increases?

Increases in pay should be self funding otherwise you are in the departure lounge of oblivion.'"


I agree but, I think you will find that regardless of "productivity" improving, within the sector, they are still being capped at 1%.

Although, many accuse Labour of solving problems, by throwing money around, without thought AND there are some eye watering salaries within local government, with council leaders getting paid more than the PM, which is clearly wrong.
This isn't what we are talking about here.

I'm trying to say that we cannot have staff, with wage increases CAPPED at 1% (this doesn't mean its and automatic increase) and yet you, like T.May,still believe this to be justified.

Fair society ?, I dont think so.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I agree but, I think you will find that regardless of "productivity" improving, within the sector, they are still being capped at 1%.

Although, many accuse Labour of solving problems, by throwing money around, without thought AND there are some eye watering salaries within local government, with council leaders getting paid more than the PM, which is clearly wrong.
This isn't what we are talking about here.

I'm trying to say that we cannot have staff, with wage increases CAPPED at 1% (this doesn't mean its and automatic increase) and yet you, like T.May,still believe this to be justified.

Fair society ?, I dont think so.'"


So are you saying everyone should be getting 1% regardless of what sector they work in - I'm struggling with your fair society - its fair public sector should be guaranteed - let's face it if its there the unions will ensure its taken - but not the private sector who have no guarantees.

That doesn't seem fair - neither did the huge increase the MPs awarded themselves didn't see the likes of Corbyn and McDonald refusing to take it!! So much for inequality

Next you will asking for a prices and incomes policy icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: West Leeds Rhino "One of the main reasons I voted Conservatives was from a purely selfish commercial point of view as Labour promised to increase Corporation tax drastically.

I am interested to understand what the reasons people voted Labour for was. Not including Austerity and Brexit, what other reasons did people vote for Labour?'"


For me i voted for a change in ethos to our society. I've no problem with having to tighten my belt, as long as those making the rules at least make a pretense that they are tightening too.

Also, I feel that Corbyn is pretty straight talking and his core beliefs are consistent with his voting record. He seems to actually be a decent human being unlike any PM in my lifetime.

I also think Labour are far more likely to invest in the north once we lose our funding from the european social fund

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Quote: Sal Paradise "So are you saying everyone should be getting 1% regardless of what sector they work in - I'm struggling with your fair society - its fair public sector should be guaranteed - let's face it if its there the unions will ensure its taken - but not the private sector who have no guarantees.

That doesn't seem fair - neither did the huge increase the MPs awarded themselves didn't see the likes of Corbyn and McDonald refusing to take it!! So much for inequality

Next you will asking for a prices and incomes policy
At least answer the basic principle or whether it is right to CAP increases in the public sector at 1%, regardless of performance or productivity.
Dont water it down or throw a smokescreen, a simple yes or no will do nicely.

We can then move on to some of the other issues.

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Quote: PCollinson1990 "So, a Quaker who has been largely discredited by HMRC for many years posts an opinion in a poorly formatted blog, and thats "evidence"'"


At least you've looked at it - and of course you're perfectly entitled to refute it, as many people in the comments section do; the point of course, is that there is plenty of conflicting information out there and it's risky to rely only on what bounces back at you in your own echo chamber.

Quote: PCollinson1990 "Tha naws t'pit is closed lad?'"


Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean, or what relevant it has?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "At least answer the basic principle or whether it is right to CAP increases in the public sector at 1%, regardless of performance or productivity.
Dont water it down or throw a smokescreen, a simple yes or no will do nicely.

We can then move on to some of the other issues.'"


If that is what the government can afford then yes it is - why should this be any different from a commercial enterprise which incidentally is actual funding the increase.

Is it OK to award pay increases if productivity drops - a simple yes or no to both questions will do nicely

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Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



It would appear Mrs May has learned nothing - why is she so afraid of engaging with other humans on a human level?

These are people who have lost everything including - in some cases - family members why is she so afraid of getting some well deserved flack!!

Time the Tories discarded this robot for someone who has empathy with and can engage with fellow humans

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[color=#000000:ogl9gbum]"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."[/color:ogl9gbum]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50733.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "why is she so afraid of engaging with other humans on a human level?'"


She's completely devoid of any social skills and looks thoroughly panicked when put in a position of having to engage with anyone other than pre-approved Tory stooges. Everything from her facial expressions to her body language is just plain awkward.

The best description I've seen of her so far is 'a baby giraffe who's been dressed at Oxfam'.

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[size=85:3idnpzvq]Cup Winners: 1914, 1982, 2005, 2016, 2017. Cup Runners-Up: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1922, 1923, 1959, 1960, 1980, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2013. League Champions: 1920, 1921, 1936, 1956, 1958, 1983. League Runners-Up: 1957, 1982, 1984, 2006.[/size:3idnpzvq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73680.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "It would appear Mrs May has learned nothing - why is she so afraid of engaging with other humans on a human level?

These are people who have lost everything including - in some cases - family members why is she so afraid of getting some well deserved flack!!

Time the Tories discarded this robot for someone who has empathy with and can engage with fellow humans'"



Doesn't empathy go against the whole Tory ideology? icon_biggrin.gif

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