| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > "freeDUMB day" |
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| Quote: mailman "I think Vallance quoted this at the press conference and then corrected himself later on Twitter saying it was 60% have not been fully vaccinated.'"
Yeah, his twitter username is @uksciencechief and he clarified it last night. On a related note @paulmainwood has done a thread to explain why this shows that the vaccine is working well. (Sorry can't link as using works laptop that blocks Twitter) |
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Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers
Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????:disney/00004.gif |
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Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "So as an employer what are you doing to keep your staff safe - because it doesn't appear to be working?
You have always been sceptical of the vaccines - so your post simply backs up your earlier view point. Hospitalisations are very low as are deaths - what has changed since January to facilitate that?'"
You are Mixing me up with someone else.
I could not be more pro vaccine. But vaccines are not going to work by themselves.
Masks in enclosed spaces , working from home got those that can. Not allowing free flow of people in and out of the UK are other things that should go hand in hand with it.
. I have a friend working in Cambridge on vaccines and all he is working on is potential viruses that may break out of vaccine.
It is those like yourself who either. Through libertarian principles, not understanding the science around vaccines , head in the sand dreamers or incompetent Tory cheerleaders who will be leading us back into a mess.
Firstly no one knows how long vaccine protection lasts.
This from Jerusalem
[i The Covid vaccine may be losing its efficacy in older people, researchers in Israel have warned, as the Delta variant drives a growing fourth wave in the country.
The monitoring team at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem reported that about 90 per cent of new confirmed cases in the over-fifties group were people who had been fully vaccinated. “It seems there’s a reduced efficiency of the vaccine, at least for part of the population,” the team said.
The researchers added, however, that there is need for further analysis before any definite conclusion on the vaccine’s efficacy can be reached. Israel has been using the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine.
[/i
Source. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covi ... -g2td6qc60
Surely it would be prudent to maintain some bio security measures in place until we understand more about this ? Such as wearing masks in shops and on public transport.
Or maybe await until people have had the booster ?
Why open nightclubs now for everyone and then say you have to prove Covid free or vaccinated in September. ?
At the current time every scientist in the world is watching Britain as a massive science experiment.
Israel which opened up 3 weeks ago is now issuing restrictions again.
As for my staff all the staff have full PPE on every visit. Mask visor gloves and apron
Being part of the public sector and essential workers who have to do visits not much else I can do |
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Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "So as an employer what are you doing to keep your staff safe - because it doesn't appear to be working?
You have always been sceptical of the vaccines - so your post simply backs up your earlier view point. Hospitalisations are very low as are deaths - what has changed since January to facilitate that?'"
You are Mixing me up with someone else.
I could not be more pro vaccine. But vaccines are not going to work by themselves.
Masks in enclosed spaces , working from home got those that can. Not allowing free flow of people in and out of the UK are other things that should go hand in hand with it.
. I have a friend working in Cambridge on vaccines and all he is working on is potential viruses that may break out of vaccine.
It is those like yourself who either. Through libertarian principles, not understanding the science around vaccines , head in the sand dreamers or incompetent Tory cheerleaders who will be leading us back into a mess.
Firstly no one knows how long vaccine protection lasts.
This from Jerusalem
[i The Covid vaccine may be losing its efficacy in older people, researchers in Israel have warned, as the Delta variant drives a growing fourth wave in the country.
The monitoring team at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem reported that about 90 per cent of new confirmed cases in the over-fifties group were people who had been fully vaccinated. “It seems there’s a reduced efficiency of the vaccine, at least for part of the population,” the team said.
The researchers added, however, that there is need for further analysis before any definite conclusion on the vaccine’s efficacy can be reached. Israel has been using the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine.
[/i
Source. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covi ... -g2td6qc60
Surely it would be prudent to maintain some bio security measures in place until we understand more about this ? Such as wearing masks in shops and on public transport.
Or maybe await until people have had the booster ?
Why open nightclubs now for everyone and then say you have to prove Covid free or vaccinated in September. ?
At the current time every scientist in the world is watching Britain as a massive science experiment.
Israel which opened up 3 weeks ago is now issuing restrictions again.
As for my staff all the staff have full PPE on every visit. Mask visor gloves and apron
Being part of the public sector and essential workers who have to do visits not much else I can do | |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "How can you blame him for his staff being off ?
The NHS app has become a bit of a joke, with may people simply ignoring or deleting the app to avoid having to isolate and the lunacy of the situation is demonstrated pretty well with my lad and his pals.
My lad, in his early 20's got pinged a week ago after going for a pint in Leeds and is dutifully isolating.
However, the lad that he went to Leeds with, who doesn't have the NHS app is carrying on regardless, still socialising and going out when he wants.
The NHS app apparently is only for "guidance" and can be ignored
Of course the example set by Bojo, is subject to change, whenever he feels like it and with "freedom day" now upon us, should anyone actually be abiding by the app, especially if they have been double jabbed.
From August 16th, NHS staff will be told to ignore the ping, "to keep the hospitals running" and if ever there was a "safety furst" situation, surely, these are the very people who should NOT ignore the isolation "advice".
It's absolute madness'"
I am not blaming him - but if the work environment encourages the spread of the virus that is against H&S regs?
I agree completely the app is a joke - yes it is only for guidance - otherwise it would be compulsary. The issue is that we are hung up about the £37bn spent and then complain when it does what it was developed to do - go figure no bigger critic on T&T than yourself.
Johnson is deluded and he he will get a rude awakening soon enough but its typical of his lack of gravitas about anything - a more unfit person for high office doesn't exist.
What is the greater risk being treated by a hospital worker with a very low risk of having the virus or not getting treated at all because there is no service available |
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It’s not the fact that it now works but the time it took and the money wasted in doing so by Dido and her friends in government.
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"Well, I think in Rugby League if you head butt someone there's normally some repercusions":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_25511.jpg |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "You are Mixing me up with someone else.
I could not be more pro vaccine. But vaccines are not going to work by themselves.
Masks in enclosed spaces , working from home got those that can. Not allowing free flow of people in and out of the UK are other things that should go hand in hand with it.
. I have a friend working in Cambridge on vaccines and all he is working on is potential viruses that may break out of vaccine.
It is those like yourself who either. Through libertarian principles, not understanding the science around vaccines , head in the sand dreamers or incompetent Tory cheerleaders who will be leading us back into a mess.
Firstly no one knows how long vaccine protection lasts.
This from Jerusalem
[iThe Covid vaccine may be losing its efficacy in older people, researchers in Israel have warned, as the Delta variant drives a growing fourth wave in the country.
The monitoring team at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem reported that about 90 per cent of new confirmed cases in the over-fifties group were people who had been fully vaccinated. “It seems there’s a reduced efficiency of the vaccine, at least for part of the population,” the team said.
The researchers added, however, that there is need for further analysis before any definite conclusion on the vaccine’s efficacy can be reached. Israel has been using the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine.
[/i
Source.
What's really thrown a spanner in the works is the R0 of the Delta variant. It's up around 8 at the highest value I've seen, compared to the UK variant (which rapidly outcompeted the Wuhan variant) which is 2-3. It's spreading like wildfire amongst young unvaccinated people who really could have been vaccinated before restrictions were lifted. My guess is that the strategy here is to let the disease run it's course through the unvaccinated youth and combine that disease acquired immunity with the vaccine immunity to protect everyone. But I can't help thinking that we were so close to doing the job properly but to not react to the R0 of Delta is a huge miscalculation. This feels very much like a political decision, or one made by scientists who have been under immense pressure for 18 months solid to walk a tightrope.
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Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers
Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????:disney/00004.gif |
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| Quote: DHM "What's really thrown a spanner in the works is the R0 of the Delta variant. It's up around 8 at the highest value I've seen, compared to the UK variant (which rapidly outcompeted the Wuhan variant) which is 2-3. It's spreading like wildfire amongst young unvaccinated people who really could have been vaccinated before restrictions were lifted. My guess is that the strategy here is to let the disease run it's course through the unvaccinated youth and combine that disease acquired immunity with the vaccine immunity to protect everyone. But I can't help thinking that we were so close to doing the job properly but to not react to the R0 of Delta is a huge miscalculation. This feels very much like a political decision, or one made by scientists who have been under immense pressure for 18 months solid to walk a tightrope.'"
I agree with your post completely. The plan here is immunity with a combination of the old being vaccinated and the young infected but it is such a massive gamble but because the RO is so high so many people will be infected at one time potentially 100,000 per day it will cause absolute mayhem with lots of people probably dying unnecessarily and lots of young people being left with potential lifelong health problems.
There is still so much we don’t know about this virus that everything is a gamble. This is not one I agree with.
You obviously know a lot about the medical side of things but one thing that alarmed me is the fact that Covid has developed from something with an Ro rate of 1 to 2 to the new level of 8. On that trajectory it could get up to the same levels of virulence as measles which is 14 as new variations develop.
If we end up with a new variation as a result of this going wrong I would hope everyone starts calling it the Boris variant |
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"Well, I think in Rugby League if you head butt someone there's normally some repercusions":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_25511.jpg |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "I agree with your post completely. The plan here is immunity with a combination of the old being vaccinated and the young infected but it is such a massive gamble but because the RO is so high so many people will be infected at one time potentially 100,000 per day it will cause absolute mayhem with lots of people probably dying unnecessarily and lots of young people being left with potential lifelong health problems.
There is still so much we don’t know about this virus that everything is a gamble. This is not one I agree with.
You obviously know a lot about the medical side of things but one thing that alarmed me is the fact that Covid has developed from something with an Ro rate of 1 to 2 to the new level of 8. On that trajectory it could get up to the same levels of virulence as measles which is 14 as new variations develop.
If we end up with a new variation as a result of this going wrong I would hope everyone starts calling it the Boris variant'"
I worry that we (UK) are now radically out of step with the rest of the world. I want to travel, it's a huge part of my job, my team is spread over Europe, China and Japan and I haven't been able to work with them in person for nearly 2 years. We can't exist in isolation and we are effectively self isolating the whole of the UK. |
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| Quote: DHM "What's really thrown a spanner in the works is the R0 of the Delta variant. It's up around 8 at the highest value I've seen, compared to the UK variant (which rapidly outcompeted the Wuhan variant) which is 2-3. It's spreading like wildfire amongst young unvaccinated people who really could have been vaccinated before restrictions were lifted. My guess is that the strategy here is to let the disease run it's course through the unvaccinated youth and combine that disease acquired immunity with the vaccine immunity to protect everyone. But I can't help thinking that we were so close to doing the job properly but to not react to the R0 of Delta is a huge miscalculation. This feels very much like a political decision, or one made by scientists who have been under immense pressure for 18 months solid to walk a tightrope.'"
The problem you have is the young don't see the benefit of the vaccination and they have been scared off by all the doom mongerers about negative impacts of having the vaccination esp. Astra Zenica. If you are only going to suffer mild symptoms why bother? There are 3m unvaccinated - we did 18k on Sunday - at that rate it would take 6 months to vaccinate all the young.
So what is your strategy then - delay opening up for what, wait for the boosters - it will be Spring next year before there is another reasonable window. |
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| Quote: DHM "I worry that we (UK) are now radically out of step with the rest of the world. '"
We've been sliding in that direction for the best part of 2 decades IMO |
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I think the change to the track and trace quarantine rules were announced without much thought which is unusual for Johnson. The first suggestion was that certain employees of what is considered vital trades do not need to quarantine if pinged. This was then changed to require each employer to apply to the government to have a specific employee exempt. I wonder how that is going to work because I am sure the government have nothing in place and why bother because everything changes again on the 16th.
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| Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "
What is the greater risk being treated by a hospital worker with a very low risk of having the virus or not getting treated at all because there is no service available'"
Sorry ZZB but, do you think that is acceptable to have people treating you for an illness if they could pass on a virus that may kill you.
Of course, if you're having a heart attack and the choice is no help or, let someone treat you who has covid then, most people would want to take their chances of catching covid.
However, when you have hospitals treating people with suppressed immune systems, you cant have staff passing on the virus.
Mind you, if Cummings is to be believed, in Bojo's mind, the over 80's dont matter so, perhaps we should allow covid to "take" those with cancer as well.
In fact, we could start euthanizing any vulnerable groups, it might save a few bob 
You simply cant have infected people treating people in hospital. |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Sorry ZZB but, do you think that is acceptable to have people treating you for an illness if they could pass on a virus that may kill you.
Of course, if you're having a heart attack and the choice is no help or, let someone treat you who has covid then, most people would want to take their chances of catching covid.
However, when you have hospitals treating people with suppressed immune systems, you cant have staff passing on the virus.
Mind you, if Cummings is to be believed, in Bojo's mind, the over 80's dont matter so, perhaps we should allow covid to "take" those with cancer as well.
In fact, we could start euthanizing any vulnerable groups, it might save a few bob ![]()
What I am saying is there is risk in anything - if you need incubation for Covid it doesn't matter to you if the people treating have a very small risk <10% of carry the virus. Same goes for most life threatening conditions you just want to saved.
In your scenario the NHS closes - there will be so many pinged it will not be able to function - so many people will die - its about risk.
I agree about Johnson - he doesn't care a jot
On a brighter note infections seem to have peaked which is a good sign all round
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "In fact, we could start euthanizing any vulnerable groups, it might save a few bob ![]()
Which is exactly the Conservative Governments intention before someone pointed out that mass deaths wasn't a good "vote catcher", but now they've already stacked the bodies anyway, they're doubling down on their supposed vax success by going herd at full steam.
I know we're just a tiny little island of 5 million and we're OK at sport and farming, but I'd happily see out my days here in isolation than spend a second in a country that has a government who are hoping "death figures don't get too high"......it's wartime and you lot are being sent over the top again whilst the rich count their profits.
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| Quote: orangeman "Which is exactly the Conservative Governments intention before someone pointed out that mass deaths wasn't a good "vote catcher", but now they've already stacked the bodies anyway, they're doubling down on their supposed vax success by going herd at full steam.
I know we're just a tiny little island of 5 million and we're OK at sport and farming, but I'd happily see out my days here in isolation than spend a second in a country that has a government who are hoping "death figures don't get too high"......it's wartime and you lot are being sent over the top again whilst the rich count their profits.'"
I understand your sentiment (about being happy to stay on your island). However, assuming that Covid isn't going away anytime soon, I'm not sure that perpetual lockdowns is a great way to carry on in the longer term.
Having said that, if our government had managed a better level of control for people moving in and out of the country, we would certainly be in a better position now than we are.
The mixed messaging from Government over here is unbelievable, hypocrisy and confusion with every new day and an opposition party without any coherent strategy, which leaves Bojo & Co to carry on regardless. |
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Onwards and upwards - LTID: |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "I have changed the thread title !'"
Are you allowed to change the thread title as you didn’t start it, or is it just to suit your own agenda  |
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