You're probably correct, although I'm not sure where right-wing comes into it - I doubt many Catholic priests are right-wing and the arts/music/TV industries are overwhelmingly left-wing. More likely a combination of fear of reprisal, denial and in the case of the church, a feeling of being untouchable.

What's interesting is you can happily talk about the part 'white middle-aged' men may have played in the cases of abuse you've mentioned, but can you dare acknowledge the specific cultural issue of gangs of Asian men grooming and sexually abusing underage white English girls? Go on, you know you want to. Or are you sticking your head in the sand like the rest?

Again - this is PRECISELY the attitude that prolonged the (known) abuse for many years and ignored the girls' pleas for help: an ingrained fear of being accused of racism, whilst being happy to condemn the girls as white trash not worthy putting in front of a jury. Stick your head in the sand and it'll all go away. This foolish left-wing attitude is part of the problem.

(lalala fingers in ears mustn't mention race lalala)

I lived in the centre of Bradford from 1992-2000 & worked there for 16 years so am very familiar with the different cultures. I was never aware of any grooming or abuse of white girls during that period. But I did witness numerous instances of unacceptable physical & emotional abuse from Asian men to Asian women. Extreme patriarchy & sexism. I grew up in a white only mining village where I saw the same behaviours exhibited there, usually more violent as it was often fueled by alcohol.

Nope, you can't admit it. Instead you (bizarrely) conflate it with domestic abuse.

You're doing a grand job of proving my point.

Give over. No-one has said it's a significant proportion of Muslims. Don't make things up to suit your agenda.

There has been welcome progress, of course, but the sort of denial/apologist/straw man rhetoric we see on these boards is typical of the left and precisely how the specific cultural issue of the abuse of under-age white girls by gangs of Asian men was allowed to persist unchecked for so many years.

And as far as I'm concerned, anyone peddling such rhetoric carries part of the blame for such a culture being allowed to exist and flourish, and skew the decision-making process within the Police/CPS/Social Services in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Blackpool, Oldham, Blackburn, Sheffield, Manchester, Skipton, Nelson, Preston, Derby, Telford, Bradford, Ipswich, Birmingham, Oxford, Barking and Peterborough - and in court only a few weeks ago, Huddersfield.

There is not just a problem in Asian communities. There is a problem in society and to only point out the issues within a certain community is what others on here are highlighting as wrong.

No one is saying these communities don't have issues, but to single them out when the same issues have been going on for years in all communities and walks of life shows bigotry.

So what's your solution to a problem that is already identified and being dealt with? No one is denying it happens but you can see where accusations of racism come from when you only bang on about child abusers of a certain ethnic background.

Sadly child abuse is not rare in our society. The fear of being labelled racist was wrong and we had got into a bad culture there but that particular issue is long gone.

All the left say is target the bad guys, but do not denigrate all immigrants who generally make a positive contribution to this country in many ways.

What the hell do you want me to say? It is a fact that groups of Asian men have groomed white girls. How can anyone argue with facts? I never experienced it or know of anyone personally who did. According to the Daily Mail Asian men are also grooming Asian girls. Typical of you UKIPers not to mention it.

Oh look the usual suspects waving their racism cards.

Let's get a few things straight. Sal mentioned Rotherham (in the context of integration) and wrencat immediately jumps on it crying about an 'anti-muslim/immigration story'. Others follow suit. There it is straight away - no acceptance that a specific cultural issue exists - instead turning on the person who mentioned it. Curiously, pretty much what happened to those who first attempted to report the issue of Asian grooming gangs.

Fact is, you're all eager as hell to jump all over the issue of Catholic/pop star child abuse - why don't we see the same enthusiasm where the predominantly Pakistani grooming gangs are concerned? I think we all know the answer.

For the hard of reading, I've already acknowledged child abuse exists elsewhere. I've even talked about it - the feeling of untouchability within the church, for example. I haven't ignored anything, but we were talking about the specific issue of Asian grooming gangs - something with particular roots, particular causes and a particular cultural background. And like it or not, the skin colour of the victims was a big factor to the abusers. Uncomfortable facts certain people can't accept.

Yes, 'we' are well aware of it now and things have improved, but that doesn't do much for the thousands of girls (and boys) who suffered for years thanks to a culture of overriding political correctness and fear of 'racial tension'. The culture that - rather than put the abuse to an end and help those kids - preferred to tip-toe around the issue of race and religion. That disgusts me. I couldn't care less what race or religion the abusers were, but it became a huge issue thanks to the Police/CPS/Social Services deciding it was more important than stopping sexual abuse of children on a massive scale.

'But...but...but Catholics/pop stars/others were at it too'...just doesn't wash, not matter how many times it's repeated. Wring those hands any more and your fingers will blister.

I'm not offering one, it's the attitude that helped the abuse persist and ignored the victims that irks.

Though if I had to, it would simply be for a race/religion-blind response to reports of child abuse. Hopefully we're already there.

Yeah I think everyone agrees that that was a bad position to get into but like I say. That particular taboo is long gone and we are arresting these animals and everyone involved with vulnerable adults is trained to recognise and report this kind of behaviour.

I just don't understand the use in continually using it as a stick to beat the bigger community with. They would tell you these men are not behaving in accordance with their religion. The Manc bomber was banned from his mosque and reported for his views.

Are they?

I've read a lot of your posts and I pretty much agree with all of them, I obviously don't know what you do for a job, but from my experience (and I won't / can't go further than that) I would say we're a long, long way away from that.

As to the further debate, I struggle to see how more integration between the people and cultures of our country would be a bad thing when what we appear to be saying is that the problems leading to horrendous abuse have been caused by a lack of understanding and mistrust of each others cultures and religions.

People are people. We need to find a way to share common ground. The people that are in this country are in this country. Isn't in all our common good to learn about and respect each other?

I would hope that this is an issue on which the right and the left could agree; where we tend not to agree however, is the language and rhetoric that tends to come from the right when this kind of filthy crime comes to light - it very quickly becomes an excuse for the kind of casual, dog whistle racism that fuels hate crime, and makes minority communities feel even more disenfranchised and alienated and by extension, less likely to engage with the police or social services. Practically a party political broadcast for the BNP.

FWIW - I'm a lefty snowflake - but I can agree without fear that a disproportionate amount of Pakistani men have been involved in this kind of case; when you look at the detail however, the evidence suggests that their motive is criminal and has nothing to do with religion; they are pimping these girls out to other criminals. There is also evidence to suggest that many of them had a belief that they would not be prosecuted by the police, because the police would be afraid of accusations of racism - which turned out to be true, and is damning. Thankfully, we seem to be past that now.