I'm not anti-German, I'm just curious into why a lot of these countries are now seemingly content to be ruled by them....By all means co-operate, trade, do what you want, but basically drop your trousers and let them shaft you??.....Yes, the Nazi's may have been keen to have us and the French on their side, but the ultimate plan was German rule, with everybody else very much the junior 'partner'....The same impression is unfortunately coming across now - Sarkozy's grovelling to Merkel just reeks of a man seeking to be closest to the German anus for prime licking position in future years of German dominance.

As for the Titanic analogy, its simple .....Getting off the sinking ship can only be a good thing?.....It ain't staying afloat, and on the slim chance it does, you will be the mug funding the re-build, while those who caused the disaster sit back puffing on their cigars.

I'd have to say I have a very soft spot for [iDad's Army[/i, among that selection

Or possibly simply that we're so desperate to be at the 'top table' and be seen as a 'big player' on the global stage that we do anything that Uncle Sam wants?



I think it was one of the few cases where we were involved in a war where there was a genuine threat against these islands, so it was about self defence and not about self interest in the traditional imperialist way that had so influenced the building of the empire.

I find it fascinating realising just how many wars we had been involved in – when they didn't actually take place on British land, we've tended to forget them. So we even had our finger in the messy, messy pie that was the Thirty Years War – and indeed, many who learnt their soldiering there went on to use those skills again in the English Civil Wars and in Ireland.

So I think that in that sense, WWII really was our moment of doing it for the right reasons. And in that sense, I understand why it continues to exercise such a hold on the national psyche – and particularly, I suspect, for the English, since their self of self-identity was pretty submerged into empire, in a way that was never quite achieved in the rest of the British Isles, where national identities continued – in some cases, as rallying calls against English dominance of the union.

Erm, they did want to invade and we stopped them.

Why try and de-value what our nation did?!

Ermm they didn't.

Did you know that there was a plan to help the Finns against the Soviets before the Nazis wiped out the French and our elite troops?

...I think we've found the holocaust denier amongst us on here.....

(Sorry, just kidding....no offence meant...)

Do me a favour.

Go and read some history books. I'm not even going to bother posting a link about Hitler wanting to invade. It would be a complete waste of time.

ok, I will if you will.

It's my specialist subject, but I don't suppose it'll bother you, will it?

It's generally tabloid rhetoric that the "Germans will rule Europe". All these European countries are signing up to joint rules and agreements, and when powers are being transferred they are going from national governments and institutions, to the European institutions. Even the Eurosceptics always talk about power being transferred to Brussels...it's not being transferred to Berlin.

Where the part about German influence comes in is that the Germans are driving a hard bargain for the rules they want everyone to sign up to, to be included, these rules are basically about national governments running a tight ship and not getting into debt. The reason the Germans are in a strong position to argue this is because they are the largest and most successful economy in the Eurozone and they are the ones who are having to pay most to keep the others afloat. So whilst the others may complain about having the agenda of what rules to sign up to being dictated by the Germans, the reason they are in this situation is because they are having to ask Germany for help all the time.

A lot of people are negative about the idea that the Germans will have influence over running things, but the Germans do know how to get an educated workforce that produces high quality goods and has a high standard of living, I'm not saying Germany is perfect but it is a more successful model than the UK.

Quality post, but didn't they bomb your chippy 70 years ago? I'm sure you remember it well.

remind me what operation sea lion was then mate please!!

I'm not your mate.

It didn't take place, thank goodness.

If it had we would have had no chance of resisting the Nazis. Thank goodness they had other prioritities.

Not on the evidence of your posts.


Well derailed, everybody, by the way.

tb, you are full of rubbish. I have very little regard for what you say. Now please go away.

I hope that the UK government supports the EU. If it doesn't we will suffer.