FORUMS > The Sin Bin > The White Working Class |
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International Chairman | 26578 | |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "I think this is partly where you don't understand economics.
You don't "create" jobs. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it.
What you do is create the conditions for jobs to exist.'"
I understand plenty thank you.
So the government wouldn't be creating jobs by building Highspeed 2 or the new Forth Road crossing? It wouldn't be creating jobs by investing in new house builds?
So what do we do while we are waiting for those conditions to exist?
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Player Coach | 20628 | |
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Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Scrap income tax which plenty of well to do people avoid anyway, raise VAT.
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Player Coach | 20628 | |
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Mar 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Not saying it's a solution, just thinking out loud
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Club Owner | 6722 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2003 | 21 years | |
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May 2015 | Mar 2014 | LINK |
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| Quote: Horatio Yed "Scrap income tax which plenty of well to do people avoid anyway, raise VAT.'"
It's also pretty harsh on the poorest people who will be hit disproportionately (even allowing for the VAT hitting more well off people more).
I agree with the direction though.
Create the conditions for people to work (incentives to do so) whilst removing incentives (i.e. cutting benefits) of not working.
Carrot and stick.
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International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "It's also pretty harsh on the poorest people who will be hit disproportionately (even allowing for the VAT hitting more well off people more).
I agree with the direction though.
Create the conditions for people to work (incentives to do so) whilst removing incentives (i.e. cutting benefits) of not working.
Carrot and stick.'"
It seems that you still seriously believe in "trickle down"
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 26578 | |
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Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
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Jul 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote: Horatio Yed "Scrap income tax which plenty of well to do people avoid anyway, raise VAT.'"
And how hard would that hit the lowest paid? VAT is a regressive tax that its the worst off the hardest.
You'd be better off cutting VAT and increasing Income Tax also have more tax bands even at the lower end, scrapping tax for the low paid just creates another disenfranchised underclass. Scrapping the celling for National Insurance would help too.
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International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "It's also pretty harsh on the poorest people who will be hit disproportionately (even allowing for the VAT hitting more well off people more).
'"
How on earth do you work that one out?
Just because someone pays more in VAT than another person, doesn't necessarily mean that they are "worse off".
Look at the percentage of VAT paid compared to disposable income and then tell me the rich are the harder hit by VAT.
Here's an example:
Cressida works in an investment bank and earns £120k per year
Charlene is on benefits
They each have a monthly period and need to buy tampons/sanitary towels
The VAT paid is the same.
Who feels the burden of the regressive tax more?
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Club Owner | 6722 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: Big Graeme "And how hard would that hit the lowest paid? VAT is a regressive tax that its the worst off the hardest.
You'd be better off cutting VAT and increasing Income Tax also have more tax bands even at the lower end, scrapping tax for the low paid just creates another disenfranchised underclass. Scrapping the celling for National Insurance would help too.'"
Fundamentally disagree with having more bands. Indeed there is a very good argument for having a single rate of income tax.
One size fits all, you earn more you pay more tax. Very simple, understandable and efficient method.
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International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "Fundamentally disagree with having more bands. Indeed there is a very good argument for having a single rate of income tax.
One size fits all, you earn more you pay more tax. Very simple, understandable and efficient method.'"
Show one.
I have provided links in the past that prove when tax bands have been reduced in number, the total tax take has followed suit.
Stop peddling neo-con bollox and look at the facts
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Club Owner | 6722 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Quote: cod'ead "Show one.
I have provided links in the past that prove when tax bands have been reduced in number, the total tax take has followed suit.
Stop peddling neo-con bollox and look at the facts'"
I already did, but to name a few:
1. The costs of administration will be massively reduced.
2. Easier for people to understand, less loopholes for people to exploit
3. Any shortfall in the above would be reclaimed through tax on consumption (e.g. VAT). No tax needed on savings. i.e. Pay as you go....
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International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
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May 2002 | 23 years | |
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Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "I already did, but to name a few
I asked for evidence NOT your (totally misguided) opinion
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International Board Member | 14970 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2002 | 22 years | |
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Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "I already did, but to name a few
In what way? Why is it massively cheaper? There are numerous online tax calculators that if I put my wage in will instantly tell me what income tax I pay. Are you saying that HMRC doesn't use a computerised system for working out my tax but a free website does?
Quote: XBrettKennyX " 2. Easier for people to understand, less loopholes for people to exploit '"
Not much easier. The vast majority of people can fairly easily work out their income tax with a calculator. Which loopholes would be closed?
Quote: XBrettKennyX " 3. Any shortfall in the above would be reclaimed through tax on consumption (e.g. VAT). No tax needed on savings. i.e. Pay as you go....'"
How would a loss of tax on ncome taxed at over 20% be reclaimed by a VAT on what must be by definition a lower (or at most, equal) amount? Without a large rise in VAT?
Disregarding the moral implications of moving tax take from a progressive system to a less fair system, the numbers simply don't stack up.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 26578 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
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Jul 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "3. Any shortfall in the above would be reclaimed through tax on consumption (e.g. VAT). No tax needed on savings. i.e. Pay as you go....'"
Sounds like one of the principles of trickle down economics, hasn't it been proven with the last two governments that the only thing that trickles down is the £...
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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Jan 2014 | Jan 2014 | LINK |
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| Quote: Dally "I am afraid not. If we had mass employment in cheap textiles, coal mining and other such industries, we'd be alot poorer.'"
First it was "textiles", now it's "cheap textiles".
Your shifting has got you almost to the truth.
Now all you have to do is to acknowledge that coal mining is not the sole preserve of developing nations and you will be agreeing with me.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14522 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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Jan 2014 | Jan 2014 | LINK |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "I already did, but to name a few
1. Eventually.
2. A flat tax would not stop exploitation of loopholes via offshoring of corporate profits, non-doms shifting money around etc , etc.
3. a) VAT is regressive and inherently unfair b) Raising VAT retards economic growth, as we are seeing at the moment.
Introducing flat tax would obviously mean that the higher paid would pay less tax (indeed, that's why so many of them like the idea). That shortfall in tax-take would have to be made up from somewhere ... where? ... there would be no option other than getting it from the lower paid, the same people who would be hit hardest by the hike in VAT.
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