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Quote: Roy Haggerty "The majority of Brexit supporters were pensioners and Tories. They aren't going to express their outrage on the streets - after all, it's hard to take on a police horse with a zimmer frame. They get their far-right mouthpieces like the Express, Mail and Sun to do it for them. Most working people voted Remain, and the younger you were, the more likely you were to vote Remain. So if (and this won't happen, sadly, because our polticians are cowardly gets) Parliament now refused to invoke Article 50, thereby doing its job and saving the country from self-harm, I would personally volunteer to police any demo, if only for the opportunity of kicking the stick away from some clueless Tory pensioner who thinks it's still 1954.'"


I work in a warehouse in St. Helens. When we where discussing the referendum before it happened the vast majority of my colleagues said they where voting to leave. That included 19 year old unskilled lads and girls aswell as the managing directors. The only people who said they were voting remain were the Pilks pensioners who were worried that their investments would drop in value.

As far as I can see there is no voter regret.

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Quote: "Roy Haggerty wrote

Nothing like simplifying things.hmmmm

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Quote: wigan_rlfc "I work in a warehouse in St. Helens. When we where discussing the referendum before it happened the vast majority of my colleagues said they where voting to leave. That included 19 year old unskilled lads and girls aswell as the managing directors. The only people who said they were voting remain were the Pilks pensioners who were worried that their investments would drop in value.

As far as I can see there is no voter regret.'"


Have you worked out what the actual tangible benefits are yet of leaving ?
(Anyone can answer this one, anyone)

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Have you worked out what the actual tangible benefits are yet of leaving ?
(Anyone can answer this one, anyone)'"


It's a bit like sports clubs refusing to leave their own squalid spiritual homes rather than sharing a better facility elsewhere , it makes you ' feel ' better icon_wink.gif

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Have you worked out what the actual tangible benefits are yet of leaving ?
(Anyone can answer this one, anyone)'"

Increase in vale of investments.

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Quote: GUBRATS "It's a bit like sports clubs refusing to leave their own squalid spiritual homes rather than sharing a better facility elsewhere , it makes you ' feel ' better
If it was "only" a sporting matter I may agree with you but, this issue is way more important.
The number of people that I have spoken to since the vote, who have said that they didn't realise this or that would happen as a result of the vote is quite astonishing.
The fact that every product that comes into the EU has a tariff number which attract a certan level of import duty and that EVERY one of these has to be re negotiated, from baked beans to bananas to Bentey's, EVERY one.
But, no , some of the Tory "optimists" are still saying that we will have free access to the single market !!!
WHY would the EU give Britain preferential access, whilst still charging other countries (who also allow free movement), is just bonkers.
If this was allowed, the EU would cease to exist and although it may crumble as a result of Brexit, there is just no way we can cherry pick our requirements and the thought of Britain arranging separate trade deals with other nations and then being allowed to supply "cheap" goods into the EU is just laughable.
Who in their right minds would allow this to happen or, believe that it could happen ????

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Quote: wrencat1873 "If it was "only" a sporting matter I may agree with you but, this issue is way more important.
The number of people that I have spoken to since the vote, who have said that they didn't realise this or that would happen as a result of the vote is quite astonishing.
The fact that every product that comes into the EU has a tariff number which attract a certan level of import duty and that EVERY one of these has to be re negotiated, from baked beans to bananas to Bentey's, EVERY one.
But, no , some of the Tory "optimists" are still saying that we will have free access to the single market !!!
WHY would the EU give Britain preferential access, whilst still charging other countries (who also allow free movement), is just bonkers.
If this was allowed, the EU would cease to exist and although it may crumble as a result of Brexit, there is just no way we can cherry pick our requirements and the thought of Britain arranging separate trade deals with other nations and then being allowed to supply "cheap" goods into the EU is just laughable.
Who in their right minds would allow this to happen or, believe that it could happen ????'"


So we were trapped ?

Do you like being trapped ?

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Quote: wrencat1873 "
The fact that every product that comes into the EU has a tariff number which attract a certan level of import duty and that EVERY one of these has to be re negotiated, from baked beans to bananas to Bentey's, EVERY one.?'"


So every product we sell to the EU will require a separately negotiated tariff ? , fair enough

Every product they sell us will need a similar negotiated tariff , no worries

As for free movement of people , well it does need to be under our control with regards those coming into Britain , if the EU want to put controls on British citizens entering the EU , again , no worries

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Quote: "WHY would the EU give Britain preferential access, whilst still charging other countries (who also allow free movement), is just bonkers.'"


Why does free movement and tariffs need to be linked??

Will our trade deals with Australia, USA, India etc be linked to the number of people we are willing to let in?

Why aren't tariffs linked to your environmental performance, military spend...........

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Quote: wire-quin "Why does free movement and tariffs need to be linked??

Will our trade deals with Australia, USA, India etc be linked to the number of people we are willing to let in?

Why aren't tariffs linked to your environmental performance, military spend...........'"


1/ They are linked within the EU because that is the deal that every member agrees to when joining the EU.

2/ We dont yet have independent deals with the USA, India, Australia yet but, bearing in mind that the EU is our largest market and they simply wong give the UK a preferential deal, especiallly IF we obtain cheaper tariff free raw materials or finished goods from India, China etc and then try to supply back into the EU, they will first of all protect their "members" just as they currently do.

3/ Tariff's are not linked to anything other than being applied to ALL goods brought into the EU.

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Quote: GUBRATS "So every product we sell to the EU will require a separately negotiated tariff ? , fair enough

Every product they sell us will need a similar negotiated tariff , no worries

As for free movement of people , well it does need to be under our control with regards those coming into Britain , if the EU want to put controls on British citizens entering the EU , again , no worries'"


I'm pleased that you have "no worries" about the products that the UK sells to the EU.

If your business depended on sales to the EU, you may think differently ?

Some politicians have tried to comfort the UK public by saying thet total trade with the EU is similar in both directions and therefore it makes sense not to have and "penalties" for trading with one another and whilst this may be true, the value of trade is approximately half of all the UK's exports but is no where near half of all exports out of the EU, therefore, in proportion, Britain has far, far more to lose.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "1/ They are linked within the EU because that is the deal that every member agrees to when joining the EU.

2/ We dont yet have independent deals with the USA, India, Australia yet but, bearing in mind that the EU is our largest market and they simply wong give the UK a preferential deal, especiallly IF we obtain cheaper tariff free raw materials or finished goods from India, China etc and then try to supply back into the EU, they will first of all protect their "members" just as they currently do.

3/ Tariff's are not linked to anything other than being applied to ALL goods brought into the EU.'"


Or goods supplied from the EU in reply/retaliation ? , those BMW,Audi's,Mercs and Volkswagens will get more expensive

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Quote: wrencat1873 "I'm pleased that you have "no worries" about the products that the UK sells to the EU.

If your business depended on sales to the EU, you may think differently ?

Some politicians have tried to comfort the UK public by saying thet total trade with the EU is similar in both directions and therefore it makes sense not to have and "penalties" for trading with one another and whilst this may be true, the value of trade is approximately half of all the UK's exports but is no where near half of all exports out of the EU, therefore, in proportion, Britain has far, far more to lose.'"


Again as you suggest , we are trapped , or being held to ransom ?

You ok with that , is that what ' friends ' do ?

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Quote: GUBRATS "So we were trapped ?

Do you like being trapped ?'"


I wouldn't call it trapped at all.
We signed up to being a part of the EU and had a voice within there to influence the direction of the "organisation".
Without doubt, certain aspects of being a member have certainly helped the UK over the last 40 years, after all we keep hearing how well our country is doing within the world market, achieved whilst being part of the EU.

The end to the cold war, the falling of the Berlin wall, living in a free society, fee movement within the EU (especially for the 2 million plus Brits in Spain.
The main aspect, free trade is huge and only now as we try to unravel the UK from 40 years of ties, can we see just how embeded we have become.

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Why the panic? France will vote in Le Pen and the EU will be finished. Its distintegration will hit the German economy hardest and we'll become, for a short while, Europe's economic powerhouse.

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