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FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) |
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "As you manage public money, can I ask you a serious question.
What happens if you or one of your colleagues overspends the budget ?
Would you be sacked, lose any bonus entitlement (I know that this may not be on the table in the first place) or suffer any serious fall out ? or, would it just be a hefty bollocking ?
Although I have no doubt that you carry out your work diligently, having a boss who's actual money you may be overspending cannot compare to going over budget in public office.'"
We have an overall budget (>£500m over 5 years) for my programme. That is broken down into many projects, each has its own budget. Each should contain sensible contingencies. There is a change control process with approvals at escalating levels. I don't need shouting at or belittling if a job goes wrong, but I do need to work out why & avoid it the next time. Overall we are well under budget, because we are good at what we do, but some individual projects have had serious cost pressures. I get no bonus, car, private health insurance, just a basic salary & a degree of job security. There is undoubtedly poor performance in other areas of the section, but that is down to bad management that has allowed to go for years. There are processes in place for dealing with poor performance but it is the hardest part of the job.
I worked in the private sector prior to my current area of work. The issues are the same; if you are going over budget you either value engineer (effectively reduce scope) or the client pays.
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International Chairman | 18060 | No Team Selected |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: bren2k "Who do you think is paying for low wages now? Businesses are effectively being subsidised through tax credits to pay poverty wages - so that shareholders can keep creaming large dividends, whilst the means of production (the workers) are kept in thrall through low pay and reliance on state aid.
Perhaps the economy needs to be rebalanced to such an extent that the super wealthy have to accept that there is such a thing as 'enough' money - and that making a profit out of a business that does not rely on state subsidised wages is still possible, but there are limits if one is to accept a wider social responsibility. The problem with late stage capitalism, is that the last bit is talked about on websites and in policies, but it doesn't actually exist at the top of organisations.'"
How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me.
If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust.
I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit?
One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.
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Moderator | 12642 | |
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Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
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Quote: Sal Paradise "How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me.
If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust.
I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit?
One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.'"
A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/
According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from:
Income tax: 158
National insurance: 101
VAT: 100
Corporation tax: 48
Excise duties: 46
Council tax: 26
Business rates: 25
Other: 85
Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.
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Quote: Sal Paradise "How do the low paid get paid through taxation revenue or government borrowing - where does the taxation come from - the majority from the private sector. So the shareholders - a big chunk of which will provide your pension on retirement are using the dividends to provide a return on the monies invested by you and me.
If your saying increase minimum wage lower benefits - I'm Ok with that but be prepared for an increase in inflation, unemployment and an increase in business failures. Unless we are all prepared to pay more - business has to pass on increases in cost or go bust.
I don't disagree that a rebalancing needs to happen somehow but are you seriously suggesting a cap on corporate profitability i.e. what is enough profit?
One thing is certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are.'"
A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/4001 ... ces-in-uk/
According to the above, in 2011-12 uk tax revenue (in billions of £) was derived from:
Income tax: 158
National insurance: 101
VAT: 100
Corporation tax: 48
Excise duties: 46
Council tax: 26
Business rates: 25
Other: 85
Also, it is not certain if the government takes over transport and utilities the prices will not be coming down they will go up at a faster rate than they currently are. We could argue about the likelihood, but it is nowhere near certain, however confident you are on the point.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18060 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "A big chunk of revenue come from citizens (subjects, whatever). Much of that from them selling their labour to the private sector - workers need jobs and jobs need workers. But we as individuals pay income tax, even if our employers (private or public) collect it on the government’s behalf.
Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?
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Moderator | 12642 | |
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
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Quote: Sal Paradise "Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?'"
As a before and after:
https://www.historyextra.com/period/20t ... care-free/
The national institute of care excellence in England (the SMC in Scotland and the AWMSG in Wales) does a massively better job of securing drugs at affordable prices than the Byzantine patchwork of approaches in the US. While I don’t agree with their America First solution, here is a rare example of the Trump administration accurately identifying a problem.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pay-drugs/
As the US Health and Human Services Secretary says, ‘the reason they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialized system.’
It’s a key area in which Liam Fox will need to stand strong in his desperate efforts to secure a face-savingly swift post-Brexit trade deal with the US. I’m sure it’ll be fine.
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Quote: Sal Paradise "Can anyone recall a government run industry where the prices have come down or have ever did come down?'"
As a before and after:
https://www.historyextra.com/period/20t ... care-free/
The national institute of care excellence in England (the SMC in Scotland and the AWMSG in Wales) does a massively better job of securing drugs at affordable prices than the Byzantine patchwork of approaches in the US. While I don’t agree with their America First solution, here is a rare example of the Trump administration accurately identifying a problem.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... pay-drugs/
As the US Health and Human Services Secretary says, ‘the reason they are getting better net prices than we get is their socialized system.’
It’s a key area in which Liam Fox will need to stand strong in his desperate efforts to secure a face-savingly swift post-Brexit trade deal with the US. I’m sure it’ll be fine.
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Player Coach | 10530 | |
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| So, between the babble from the IG on Marr this morning, they don't currently have any confirmed policies, but they will base their policies on empirical data and evidence, as opposed to ideology.
Great idea, so that means we'll see a higher minimum wage, higher top tax rates, inheritance taxes, decriminalisation of drugs, a much quicker shift to renewable energy, public investment in infrastructure, proportional representation, non renewal of trident, remaining in the EU, and an overhaul of our education system, and cheaper higher education.
Most of which was in the labour manifesto anyway.
If the IG had policies that would set out to achieve some of those things, I'd consider voting for them, but I think we'll just end up with a set of policies Blair and Cameron would've come up with.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 12642 | |
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "So, between the babble from the IG on Marr this morning, they don't currently have any confirmed policies, but they will base their policies on empirical data and evidence, as opposed to ideology.
Great idea, so that means we'll see a higher minimum wage, higher top tax rates, inheritance taxes, decriminalisation of drugs, a much quicker shift to renewable energy, public investment in infrastructure, proportional representation, non renewal of trident, remaining in the EU, and an overhaul of our education system, and cheaper higher education.
Most of which was in the labour manifesto anyway.
If the IG had policies that would set out to achieve some of those things, I'd consider voting for them, but I think we'll just end up with a set of policies Blair and Cameron would've come up with.'"
I think there’s a case for evidence based politics in deciding how best to reach desired goals. However, you still need to have priorities and state your goals to have coherent political narrative. We all want what’s best, but that means different things to different people.
If the IG is to have a voice it needs a top-level message.
The conservatives highlight ‘opportunity’, labour talk about ‘the many’. In fairness, the Lib Dem’s website just talks generically about ‘better’ on its front page.
For now it is just a grouping. Whether it can become a party with a leader, and a manifesto is hard to say at the moment.
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18686.jpg In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!:18686.jpg |
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| So, May denies running down the clock, but once again delays the vote!
rl#omnishamblesrl
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "So, between the babble from the IG on Marr this morning, they don't currently have any confirmed policies, but they will base their policies on empirical data and evidence, as opposed to ideology.
Great idea, so that means we'll see a higher minimum wage, higher top tax rates, inheritance taxes, decriminalisation of drugs, a much quicker shift to renewable energy, public investment in infrastructure, proportional representation, non renewal of trident, remaining in the EU, and an overhaul of our education system, and cheaper higher education.
Most of which was in the labour manifesto anyway.
If the IG had policies that would set out to achieve some of those things, I'd consider voting for them, but I think we'll just end up with a set of policies Blair and Cameron would've come up with.'"
I'm not sure just how much the IG will grow but, I think they are keeping their "gun powder" dry until they know exactly how strong their group is going to be.
It's a little too soon to be trying to pin them down.
Hell, Corbyn has had over 3 years as Labour leader and nobody yet knows his stance on Europe, he's been rather reticent in committing himself or his party in either direction.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| The labour position on Brexit is pretty clear in their manifesto, isn't it? To hounor the referendum result, remain in the customs union, maintain ties to the single market, protect workers rights, maintain a soft Irish border, and to take all steps to avoid a no deal. All positions which the EU seem to think are workable.
They also appear to be moving towards backing a 2nd referendum, if MPs don't back May's deal.
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "The labour position on Brexit is pretty clear in their manifesto, isn't it? To hounor the referendum result, remain in the customs union, maintain ties to the single market, protect workers rights, maintain a soft Irish border, and to take all steps to avoid a no deal. All positions which the EU seem to think are workable.
They also appear to be moving towards backing a 2nd referendum, if MPs don't back May's deal.'"
And dont forget the 6 (impossible) tests, which allows them to vote against any and every deal !
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "The labour position on Brexit is pretty clear in their manifesto, isn't it? To hounor the referendum result, remain in the customs union, maintain ties to the single market, protect workers rights, maintain a soft Irish border, and to take all steps to avoid a no deal. All positions which the EU seem to think are workable.
They also appear to be moving towards backing a 2nd referendum, if MPs don't back May's deal.'"
How can you remain in the customs union/single market and leave?
You can maintain a soft Irish border if you remain in the union?
No wonder the EU think its workable
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "How can you remain in the customs union/single market and leave?
You can maintain a soft Irish border if you remain in the union?
No wonder the EU think its workable
In fairness, I think that Corbyn was talking about "A" customs union, a bespoke arrangement, I think.
IF this were possible AND we could still negotiate bespoke trade deals, that would be ok but, at the moment it's pure conjecture.
It's quite increddible that the Tories, allegedly the party for business can allow the UK ecconomy to drift along without any guidance and whether May is deliberately winding the clock down in some political game of "who blinks first" or being shrewd with her negotiating (there's more chance of knitting fog), I dont know but how the hell is any business supposed to plan their buying/ selling strategy on if's and but's.
The whole country is having to make decisions with their eyes half closed, it isn't helping one iota.
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
Moderator
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| As Boris said "F*** business!"
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: Bullseye "As Boris said "F*** business!"'"
Yes, he, along with many others has more faces than the town hall clock and it depends who he is talking to as to which mouth speaks.
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759 |
336 |
423 |
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729 |
335 |
394 |
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Warrington |
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769 |
351 |
418 |
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561 |
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427 |
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530 |
488 |
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1010 |
262 |
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York |
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561 |
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626 |
526 |
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498 |
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422 |
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437 |
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348 |
879 |
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