FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead... |
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TotalRl.com - Home of Stupid Questions, Friday Pix and of course Millward is a Gurner.: |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "Any chance you could provide some links to where all these figures come from that you quote'"
oops, sorry.
they're from DaveO's new bible.
rlhttp://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05809.pdfrl
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TotalRl.com - Home of Stupid Questions, Friday Pix and of course Millward is a Gurner.: |
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| Quote: DaveO "The bottom line is out manufacturing output has fallen since the 70's from 5th to 9th and contrary to popular belief it isn't just in comparison to emerging economies such as China but against comparable European ones.'"
really? are you reading the right data. from the link YOU provided?
UK France
1970 5th 7th
1980 7th 5th
1990 6th 7th
2000 5th 7th
2010 9th 8th
because, what that looks like to me, y'know, your figures, is that the hit the fan in the 70's, the tories to improve our lot only for labour to balls it up. so, when people spout on about how thatcher destroyed our manufacturing industry, are they just misinformed or just outright liars.
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
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kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Steve 51 "
Because they choose to ignore the 6 months prior to the 1979 election where the country was at the mercy of the unions to the extent that you wen't to bed not knowing if there's be water the next day, or gas/electricity to heat homes in the winter ...'"
We ignore it because it never happened
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40606.jpg :40606.jpg |
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| Quote: cod'ead "We ignore it because it never happened'"
You obviously weren´t working in the 1979 then!
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40606.jpg :40606.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "And as Ha-Joon Chang explains, chasing very, very low inflation can be negative and, indeed, a certain level of inflation does no intrinsic damage.'"
Are you saying then that the Callaghan Government were being positive with their 18% inflation?
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2051.jpg The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan:2051.jpg |
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| Quote: Lord Elpers "You obviously weren´t working in the 1979 then!'"
Feel free to highlight the water shortages, gas shortages and power cuts that happened in 1979.
Apart from January, when I had responsibility for flying pickets during the lorry drivers' strike, I worked the whole year. How was school for you?
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40606.jpg :40606.jpg |
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| Quote: Mintball "Did it remind you of how much successive governments had, for a decade or so, been taking money out of these industries and utilities and not re-investing it in them?'"
In the 1960´s and 1970´s successive governments were pouring huge subsidies into these any loss making state run industries. They might just as well have gone into Trafalgar Square and burnt the tax payers money for all the good it did. Civil servants and politicians were/are just not able enough to run industry in a competitve market place.
Quote: Mintball "And did it discuss how 'selling off the family silver' not only left the country pretty much without any internal control, over what it needs to power it, and domestic customers in particular have been able to watch their bills spiral?.'"
You could not describe the privatisation of state industries after 1979 as selling the family silver.....they were all bankrupt.
Now if you are talking about selling off the family gold....we should give a mention to Gordon no more boom and bust Brown and Ed Balls up
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| Quote: DaveO "I will go with the House of Commons as my sourcehttp://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05809.pdfrl
It's obvious that while the likes of Germany,France and Italy retain ownership of major car manufacturers and have companies that manufacture rolling stock and so on when n the UK we have one train maker left who is under threat of closure you are hiding behind a very naive interpretation of statistics. The fact some manufacturers such as Rolls Royce build high value aero engines and this bumps up figures that relate to the value of exports doesn't disguise the obvious.'"
Didn't Labour preside over the 13 years before 2010?
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| Quote: DaveO "I am sure you understood the meaning. BMW and VW are German owned companies and so any outposts here such as Mini are always at risk of losing out to German domestic concerns. The state of Lower Saxony owns something like 12% of VW and despite the "Volkswagon Law" being declared illegal the share ownership structure is such it isn't going to be taken over by a foreign company or dismantled.
In France Renault (which is associated with Nissan) was built up by the French government rather than allowed to go bust as our domestically owned car manufacturing base was. Companies like VW and Renault are German and French in an economic sense far more than any company in the UK involved in large scale volume manufacture is British these days.
So while companies like Nissan and Toyota contribute to our manufacturing output the fact they are foreign owned can't be shrugged off as just merely the product of globalisation because countries such as France, Germany (and Italy with Fiat) view the domestic ownership of such industries as important pillars of their economies.'"
Now if you are going to talk of who ruined the British car industry then look no further than Red Robbo and his militant union chums
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| As I asked way up the thread, name one private manufacturing company that MRS THATCHER closed down? Name any remotely viable manufacturing entity SHE closed down? I'd be interested.
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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| Quote: Dally "As I asked way up the thread, name one private manufacturing company that MRS THATCHER closed down? Name any remotely viable manufacturing entity SHE closed down? I'd be interested.'"
Bit of a daft question - might as well extend it to any government from any era, governments don't close private businesses down at all, private businesses are nothing to do with governments unless they are running an illegal operation, governments do however close publicly owned businesses down, they run them down through under investment and poor management appointments and when they sell them on its often at a marked down price to get rid and attract buyers, which in the long term hardly ever benefits the public purse.
Like other have pointed out there were obvious basket cases in the 70s like BL and BT and likewise there are cases like East Coast who have proved that public ownership means better service and more profits simply by applying proper management techniques - you don't have to have civil servants running public companies.
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| Quote: cod'ead "Feel free to highlight the water shortages, gas shortages and power cuts that happened in 1979.
Apart from January, when I had responsibility for flying pickets during the lorry drivers' strike, I worked the whole year. How was school for you?'"
I started work in 1961 and have worked continuously until recent semi retirement. I will also feel free to mention the humiliation of the Greek style bail out under Callaghan's Labour Government and the Winter of Discontent with coffins piled up in warehouses and parks full of rat infested rubbish and the failure to answer 999 calls.
I witnessed the greedy selfish unions ruining the country which was by 1979 a basket case. These undemocratic unions were run by short sighted idiots like Red Robbo through various Scottish ones to that twerp Scargill. History will prove these intransigent upstarts bare the real guilt for so many job losses.
But rather like Churchill who saved us from peril in time of War thank goodness we had Mrs Thatcher who saved us from peril in 1979. Not only that but she played a major role in the defeat of communism and freedom for the peoples of so many Eastern countries.
If you were an illegal flying picket you certainly didn't work the whole year. You were skiving or on strike. What a sad thing to boast about! I now understand why Mrs Thatcher's victorys over the bad guys has left you so bitter and twisted.
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| Quote: JerryChicken "Bit of a daft question - might as well extend it to any government from any era, governments don't close private businesses down at all, private businesses are nothing to do with governments unless they are running an illegal operation, governments do however close publicly owned businesses down, they run them down through under investment and poor management appointments and when they sell them on its often at a marked down price to get rid and attract buyers, which in the long term hardly ever benefits the public purse.
'"
So Mrs Thatcher did not kill of British manufacturing did she?
Governments ill-advisedly had been propping up failed private business by nationalising them to avoid mass unemployment. But it was just a wasteful use of resources and wholly unsustainable. when you look back it is frankly farcical that British Leyland (and, although not manufacruring) BRS were supported by public money. What thanks did the government public get? Unions always striking because governments had signalled they were too big too fail. All nationalisation of these dead ducks did was prolong the agony and tie up resources preventing the evolution of new more viable businesses.
As I said, Mrs Thatcher did not destroy British manufacturing - certain sectors did well and grew, others failed because they produced obsolete goods, poor goods or goods too expensively.
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143_1357419061.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_143.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "I am sure you understood the meaning. BMW and VW are German owned companies and so any outposts here such as Mini are always at risk of losing out to German domestic concerns. The state of Lower Saxony owns something like 12% of VW and despite the "Volkswagon Law" being declared illegal the share ownership structure is such it isn't going to be taken over by a foreign company or dismantled.
In France Renault (which is associated with Nissan) was built up by the French government rather than allowed to go bust as our domestically owned car manufacturing base was. Companies like VW and Renault are German and French in an economic sense far more than any company in the UK involved in large scale volume manufacture is British these days.
So while companies like Nissan and Toyota contribute to our manufacturing output the fact they are foreign owned can't be shrugged off as just merely the product of globalisation because countries such as France, Germany (and Italy with Fiat) view the domestic ownership of such industries as important pillars of their economies.'"
I am unclear at the point you are making. In the context of "Thather destroying manufacturing" the argument seems we should have propped up shambolic companies that produced stuff that would not sell because of employment. Foreign owned companies provide employment at less cost to us. They produce cars that people want too.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14845 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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143_1357419061.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_143.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "I am sure you understood the meaning. BMW and VW are German owned companies and so any outposts here such as Mini are always at risk of losing out to German domestic concerns. The state of Lower Saxony owns something like 12% of VW and despite the "Volkswagon Law" being declared illegal the share ownership structure is such it isn't going to be taken over by a foreign company or dismantled.
In France Renault (which is associated with Nissan) was built up by the French government rather than allowed to go bust as our domestically owned car manufacturing base was. Companies like VW and Renault are German and French in an economic sense far more than any company in the UK involved in large scale volume manufacture is British these days.
So while companies like Nissan and Toyota contribute to our manufacturing output the fact they are foreign owned can't be shrugged off as just merely the product of globalisation because countries such as France, Germany (and Italy with Fiat) view the domestic ownership of such industries as important pillars of their economies.'"
I am unclear at the point you are making. In the context of "Thather destroying manufacturing" the argument seems we should have propped up shambolic companies that produced stuff that would not sell because of employment. Foreign owned companies provide employment at less cost to us. They produce cars that people want too.
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