Love your command of the English language (smashed it) .'"

Not so hot on the IT hey Backwardsman? Virtual pot, kettle, black.

Ooh let's do a list of all the capitalist countries that have failed & the fascist leaders who the Tories have invited over & held hands with.'"

If you say Venezuela enough times, it doesn't make it any more of a convincing argument; particularly if you ignore the effect of US sanctions, and the desperate attempts to get hold of their oil reserves.

By your argument, one could say that the global wealth inequality, where 42 people hold as much wealth as the poorest 50% of the worlds population - proves that capitalism on this scale simply doesn't work.

Ooh let's do a list of all the banks, businesses, privatisations & infrastructure projects that the Tories have wisely thrown billions at & have failed.

While it’s arguable whether it is a socialist system, and it isn’t remotely a model i’d advocate... China these last couple of decades.

Also, it isn’t like Latin America hasn’t had it’s fair share of deplorable and failing right wing and capitalist regimes. While Venezuela is a striking example, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is widely generizable.

The extent of democracy and corruption in a country is a better indicator of likely success, which can be defined in different ways admittedly, than where it sits on the economic left-right spectrum.

The idea that we’re only a Corbyn premiership away from becoming Venezuela is ludicrous hyperbole.

As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.

Quote: tigertot "As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.'" A lot of that correlates with democracy. Well according to this book anyway... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dictators-Hand ... /ref=nodl_ that I found very interesting and pretty compelling. There’s a 20-minute film about it by a guy call CGP Grey on YouTube that gives a good summary. In the book (not sure about the YouTube) there’s also a ‘different’ take on foreign aid. That it is usually a bribe, rather than generosity, and it is very often an ineffective bribe. For example paying another country to fight a war as a proxy on your behalf - they’re incentivised to never quite win, because then the cash will stop flowing. Also, debt relief to non-democratic nations tends not to be helpful.

Quote: tigertot "As should the levels of literacy/education, employment, health, social security & housing.'" A lot of that correlates with democracy. Well according to this book anyway... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dictators-Hand ... /ref=nodl_ that I found very interesting and pretty compelling. There’s a 20-minute film about it by a guy call CGP Grey on YouTube that gives a good summary. In the book (not sure about the YouTube) there’s also a ‘different’ take on foreign aid. That it is usually a bribe, rather than generosity, and it is very often an ineffective bribe. For example paying another country to fight a war as a proxy on your behalf - they’re incentivised to never quite win, because then the cash will stop flowing. Also, debt relief to non-democratic nations tends not to be helpful.

I was not suggesting that the UK would end up like Venezuela - most of our oil has already gone. What I am suggesting is if you get a Labour Government public spending will go through the roof and there are only two ways of funding that. Higher taxes or higher borrowing

Corbyn has suggested that the minimum wage be raised to £10/hour - seems like a good idea until you think about who is going to pay for it. Take Morrisons the impact of a minimum wages increase on that company will be to halve their profits. So its likely that prices will rise its pretty certain so we all pay but what happens in the public sector who pays?

Governments waste money because it doesn't matter if budgets are not kept to and Governments are much slower to react to poorly performing projects the NHS IT patient record system is an example of Labour government run project. The more government spending the higher the inefficiency and greater waste cost.

Venezuela is an authoritarian state which should be opposed.
They're paying the price for not diversifying their economy. Oil makes up 97% of their exports, and they've never been able to recover since the oil price dropped a few years ago.
Although, they're not as socialistic as you may think, most land, capital, and businesses is privately owned.

I dont agree with the way the opposition and foreign governments have declared the opposition leader the rightfull president, considering they boycotted the last one.
Mudero should just call an election under the supervision of the UN (although, I think when the UN offered to observe the last election, the opposition declined).
Something tells me that the election would be closer than the media would have us believe, which is why most people opposed to the Mudero government are calling for him to resign, as opposed to calling for an election.

Higher tax revenue can be achieved through stimulus spending too. I appreciate it is a stretch, but no more so than lower taxes for the wealthy as stimuli and nonsense like trickledown.



On a basic level, it’s a transfer of wealth from shareholders to workers. Secondary consequences are harder to predict - it could be inflationary, and it could increase economic activity and equality. You never really know until you pull the lever. As Brexit enthusiasts are fond of saying, the models are often wrong. At the end of the day, as CGP Grey says, politicians reward the people who are important in getting them into power and keeping them there. Corbyn presumably sees votes among the low-paid.

What is about you and Morrison’s btw?



Organisations in which incentives are poorly structured are inefficient. I don’t think that’s more true for Government’s than any other types. Those bankers who crashed the economy 12 years ago weren’t bad people - or if they were that wasn’t the cause. It was just a horribly distorted and inefficient system.

Who do you think is paying for low wages now? Businesses are effectively being subsidised through tax credits to pay poverty wages - so that shareholders can keep creaming large dividends, whilst the means of production (the workers) are kept in thrall through low pay and reliance on state aid.

Perhaps the economy needs to be rebalanced to such an extent that the super wealthy have to accept that there is such a thing as 'enough' money - and that making a profit out of a business that does not rely on state subsidised wages is still possible, but there are limits if one is to accept a wider social responsibility. The problem with late stage capitalism, is that the last bit is talked about on websites and in policies, but it doesn't actually exist at the top of organisations.

Nail on head Bren.
People dont realise that the government is actually subsidising ALL businesses.
Mind you, left to their own devices, big business would be happy for its workers to live in poverty "as long as the work gets done".
If you go back in history and look at some of the major capital projects, people were utterly expendable and thousands lost their lives constructing railways, roads, mining.
Thankfully, a more civilised society has deemed this intolerable but, greed seem to be the driving factor is so much of the modern world.
I dont actually know how this can be changed.
Maybe its time to rid the world of tax havans and tax avoidance schemes.

The hypocrisy in how we are supposed to "worship" the rich and famous, who earn millions and yet avoid paying their share of tax. Maybe it's time that these people were called out for being "cheats" of the state, rather than super stars.

And that's exactly what Labour are proposing to do - hence the massive and organised mobilisation of the establishment, including the Blairite centrists in their own ranks, to prevent them at all costs.

Welcome aboard comrade - solidarity!

This gets trotted out by the right every time increasing the pay of the lowest paid is suggested. Strange how the world didn't stop. Neither did the lowest paid cause the world financial crisis. Also strange how the 'happiest' countries in the world tend to have lower gaps between the lower & higher paid, & the lowest wage is closest to the average. And those countries are prosperous.


Cobblers. More unsubstantiated right wing drivel. I manage public money, the private companies I employ constantly are looking for ways to break that budget.

As you manage public money, can I ask you a serious question.
What happens if you or one of your colleagues overspends the budget ?

Would you be sacked, lose any bonus entitlement (I know that this may not be on the table in the first place) or suffer any serious fall out ? or, would it just be a hefty bollocking ?

Although I have no doubt that you carry out your work diligently, having a boss who's actual money you may be overspending cannot compare to going over budget in public office.