Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...

Quote: DaveO "Some industries are just not profitable without state subsidy. The railways being a case in point. Taxpayers subsidise the profits of Virgin Trains for example. If there are any advantages to privatisation it must be cheaper cost to the taxpayer. I see the opposite here.

Others such as Gas and Electricity are only profitable due to ever increasing bills for the consumer. Remember a private companies first duty is to its shareholders and we see the results with the power companies with less well off people suffering fuel poverty in 2013.

Some industries are natural monopolies and when you have a monopoly its better for the state to run it.

The idea mentioned elsewhere that there is some intrinsic problem once people are employed in such organisations is complete bunkum. The East Coast main line has been run by the state for over three years and is efficient. Network Rail itself is state run after having to be re-nationalised. The fact the most costly health provision in the world in the USA is private shows that is another area where privatise everything is not appropriate.

Was exiting the ERM mentioned under Lamont? I remember interests rates at that level and higher due to all that.

She was battling for the rights of her members and if you look into this in any detail you will find she was opposed by many local union leaders as she tried to end the casual labour that dominated the industry because getting them all unionised would have undermined the local leaders influence and position. She wasn't opposed to progress but was batting on a losing wicket because to a large extent local leaders felt they could continue to hold papers to ransom (by preventing them going to print). Murdoch saw that as the opportunity he needed to undermine Dean. It wasn't unions (ad Dean's level) interfering in progress but very old fashioned local chapel leaders who wanted to retain their influence who couldn't see what was coming that were the problem. They wanted to carry on with the way things were as art of an almost feudal system. Dean recognised this but was hamstrung from the start. There is a lot of stuff on the net about this dispute and it makes interesting reading.

And with our triple A rating gone and no manufacturing industry in comparison to the likes to Germany and France we aren't now? I certainly feel we have been dumped on from a very great height and when we see things like the Aussie dollar surge and make it prohibitive for us to travel there as opposed to the other way around we really are in a mess.

Nigel Lawson should have been shot for selling off BNOC.'"

Nationalised industries are OK provided they are cost neutral - otherwise they are being effectively subsidised by the non-state run businesses. Some areas need to be nationalised - NHS, roads, railway tracks etc. No one could possibly argue that BT is a worse company now than it was then it is a great example of progress that can made through de-nationalisation.

One thing that has occured to me is why didn't the NUM offer to take the mines out of public ownership and run it themselves if the business was such a great proposition? If as MR Fish says the coal was of such burning efficiency then everyone should be desperate to buy it - especially outside of teh UK - as it would provide massive financial gains.

We may have high interest rates but we never had high inflation - the Tories brought inflation down to 2% from 18%. The high inflation rate was caused primarily by unions involved with nationalised industries demanding excessive wage rises which caused an unsustainable upward cycle and the need to bail out to the IMF.

Dean was the boss of the union - don't blame the monkeys because the organ grinder was unable to control/manage the underlings. She is an example, the major culprits were Jack Jones, Hugh Scanlon, Arthur Scargill, Ray Buckton, Sid Weighell who demanded higher wages with no increases in productivity and no process improvements forcing costs up.