This is so dull.

Yes, that is all true. No-one is denying legislation exists.

But - as tigertot doesn't seem to understand - any bid you receive will contain data, information, projections, etc, that have been compiled by the bidder based on their own internal data, information, projections, etc - and intended margins/yield - that you simply cannot verify independently and the bidder may choose to protect. You have to trust it is true and correct. Then, at some point you need to look at your bids having carried out all your checks and adhered to all the processes and regulations, you make a decision. There is always an element of trust that everything you're basing your decision on is true and correct.

Stagecoach (and other transport providers, to be fair), for example, failed to foresee a vast increase in home-working, which has hit their passenger number projections in a big way. They may have submitted an honest and open bid, but in hindsight they got at least one part of it wrong. Whoever accepted that bid at the DoT may have carried out due diligence to the n'th degree, but it doesn't change the fact the sums turned out to be wrong.

Just the one

That's the risk of capitalism. If the gamble works the return is profit. If it fails you are supposed to pay the price. But those responsible in major projects, as with the financial collapse, rarely do. It's the poor suckers further down the line who do.

I think that's the big scandal here - under the current regime, it seems that these huge companies are quite happy to reap the rewards, but not to take on the risk.

In the real world you would just put the company into liquidation - nobody can realistically be expected to keep putting good money after bad without a vision of the future that says the money is recoverable.

It is a problem of choosing the lowest bid - seldom does it offer real value for money as the saying goes "if it looks too good it probably is". The person assessing the bids is only able to assess data provided to them by the bidder - if the bidder chooses not to disclose then there is very little the assessor can do.

that's why you would be stupid to accept just the lowest bid, rather than best value, unless you were buying identical goods. And there's lots you can do.

Anyhow.................

Who did Amber in?

Don't get me wrong, I find the thread drifts interesting at times, especially regarding bidding processes.

In this respect, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Carillion, or is that too toxic for a slightly quirky message board?

It happens all the time - it usually the reason for the government placing work overseas - the latest being the passport contract.

Exactly what I said;



Carillion knew they were in trouble yet continued to pay obscene salaries & bonuses. 20,000 UK jobs at risk. I can guarantee Carillion bosses who have not milked a cozy pension will be walking into top jobs at other multi national construction companies. A story of recklessness, hubris and greed.

Privatise the profits and socialise the losses. It's never those who are at fault who pick up the tab.

In the meantime bank the taxes

How did Carillion ever get a public contract? possibly because they were the lowest bidder by a distance.

That company was rotten to the core - not all private business is run with such lowly ethics/culture. I would suggest the high up people in that business will struggle to gain employment in a any kind of sizable business.

My parents had their own business, just my Dad running it on a day to day basis. I know what it takes to keep it going, about simple morals & business ethics, & who suffers if it struggles. There are a handful of large construction companies & consultants in the UK capable of dealing with projects >£20m. It is a merrygoround of senior managers between them. I have seen numerous companies go bust, taking small suppliers & sub contractors with them, only for the same people to crop up soon after.

I would suggest the skill set of running a large project is not in the skill set of the main directors of Carillion it will be in the senior project managers/engineers. Very slim chance of the Chairman/CEO/CFO ever appearing on the board of a major construction company in the future.

They will do well to avoid being struck of as directors and stuck off their professional bodies.