It's both. Indeed, the two are inextricably linked.

That'd be well smart innit cos we'd get a supply teacher in innit. We could doss about then.


Sir.

It's all a question of perception.
When I lived in London, I knew a Parisienne who worked at an employment agency who had lived in Tod-Mor-den (as she pronounced it) and absolutely loved the place.

It grows on you.

Yes, I know mould does too.

What would Jesus do?

Do you have any links to these reports that it's detrimental to the other children?

I know for certain it hasn't been detrimental to mine.

Nope. I read the physical papers when I was a governor and have no idea where to find them online.

The idea that because something hasn't happened to you personally it must never happen to anyone is a basic logical fallacy.

Incidentally, if Gove gets his way then pretty soon schools will not be able to authorise any absence whatsoever. At least that might stop folk moaning at them for doing their job.

My memories of the place aren't helped by some spectacular incidents with my father during those holidays – let's just say he was addicted to prescription barbiturates at the time.

Well, you want me to accept a premise. Regardless of the accuracy of the original data you've read, the premise is merely based upon a recollection of a document you recall reading.

You've based much of your argument against parents taking their children on holiday on the premise that is is detrimental to the other school children.

With the greatest of respect, I am not willing to accept that it is based solely upon your recollection of what you read in an unnamed document.

Can you at least expand upon the theory of why my daughter's absence for four days before half term will be detrimental to the other children in her no doubt already overcrowded classroom?

I've based my argument primarily on it being bad for the children being removed with subsidiary effects on the entire class. And I'm not wanting you to accept anything - I'm putting forward a case that you're free to accept or not. I would just point out that it's hardly based on my recollection of a single unnamed document - there were multiple written sources and discussions with professionals involved.

A little Googling will give you plenty of documents discussing the link between attendance and achievement, and a few touching on the disruption of the remainder of the class. The former has been well established for decades and the latter for a little less time. If you're genuinely interested in the material then there's plenty there to get stuck into.

The general principle behind the classroom disruption has to do with the build up to and return from the holiday. It becomes a source of excitement and discussion in class both before and after the trip itself, which makes it more difficult to maintain concentration among the children and leads to less effective teaching and learning. It has a larger impact in Primary than Seconday schools as younger children tend to be more easily excited. Term time holidays are not unique in producing this effect BTW - but they are avoidable.

People tend to assume that 'a few days' away from school will have a limited effect on their child's education. And in cases like yours where it really is a few days during a period where teaching may be less intensive anyway that may well be the case. But we had parents requesting the full 10 days 'allowed' bang in the middle of term. That can equate to around 50 hours of teaching missed even without taking homework into account. Even in the rare cases where some effort was to be made to compensate while away, it's impossible to make up that much lost learning time.

I wasn't trying to be clever I'd just never considered taht aspect and am interested in whether that is actually the case. I don't think I fully accept the premise at this stage but will look for more material.

With respect that is very weak. Kids will get excited and talk about anything, football, ballet lessons etc.

I would agree that scenario is irresponsible and would expect head teachers to exercise their discretion to refuse such requests. But I usually am asking for a few days preceeding a half term and haven't had a request refused yet, and would probably take a hit with the fine if I did.

I took my 6yr daughter out of school for 3 days and your saying i dont care about my daughters education?
So parents who take there kids out of school for dentist twice a year are also bad?
The sin bin is a great place to read some e and have a laugh at people maybe people dont care about there kids when they are constantly posting on here too, go take some time away from here and spend some quality time with the kids

p.s that was not aimed at anyone at all

I wonder how many and which posters on this thread are actually parents themselves