I think there was enough reasoning given to yesterdays comment, yesterday.
But, if you didn't understand the analogy or, didn't agree with it, that's ok.

The post that you has suggested that I may have a chip on my shoulder was following from Garbutts post, which you appeared to agree with " There shouldn't be a single foreign national receiving Universal Credit etc. IMHO".
If you dont agree with this comment, then great and you rightly point out that candidates should be assessed on merit and merit alone.
If that person is successful and the relevant checks all come back in good order, off you go. However, if something comes out of the woodwork and they are ineligible for work, then they, quite rightly would have their job offer revoked.

Your absolutely right re skills shortage I used Nurses, doctors as my analogy in my earlier post but the same has to be said about the building industry and that's why I said earlier I don't agree with Mays policy of 10s of thousands we need what we need ive absolutely no issues with that.

Just a small aside from your point. The last construction scheme I did it wasn't the lack of labour that was the problem it was getting hold of bricks, there had be such a lack of investment in construction they had massively reduced brick production. Good job it wasn't a large scheme

Are you truly that clueless?

The threat of a negotiation failing is always a key bargaining chip. Or have you never sat in a boardroom thrashing out the minutiae of an agreement?

Evidently not.

Let's try again. While 'no deal' remains an option - and if Parliament drove us towards no deal - the EU would have to bend a little to avoid a hard border and the other chaos, and the reality is they absolutely do not want no deal. However, with 'no deal' off the table, they can sit back safe in the knowledge WE MUST TAKE THEIR DEAL [size(or remain)[/size. We no longer have a choice. We've backed ourselves into a corner. Their work is done, they can smoke a cigar and leave Parliament to wrangle it out.

I guarantee you the moment that vote went through Brussels was ringing to the sound of laughter. It's no coincidence they tweeted to reaffirm 'no renegotiation' literally 6 minutes later.

A hard border would be devastating to Ireland - hence why Varadkar has been doing his best to play hard ball this week. If Parliament could not agree on a deal (not unlikely) and by mid March we're looking at no deal, what do you think Ireland will be screaming at Brussels? Yep, they will be utterly desperate to renegotiate and get a deal in place. The EU cannot be seen to send one of their members to the wall. They would bend.

We lose all of that bargaining power if we legally take no deal off the table. Comprende?

But when we discuss an option as offering chaos and devastation, to convince them we’re not bluffing, we have to convince them we’re idiots. Mind you, it’s depressing to think how easily they could believe that nowadays.

A bullying ‘whites of our eyes’ approach to negotiation only really works when negotiating from a dominant position. We’re not. Also it damages trust, and we still have to negotiate a future relationship after the withdrawal agreement is done. Looking at mutual interests and for win-win options would be a more conventional and productive approach imo.

Until a deal is done, no deal always remains an option. The anti-no deal amendment passed by the Commons was as weak as water and non-binding. The ‘no renegotiation’ position of the EU was their response to the ‘please sir, I want some more’ Brady amendment. The general consensus seems to be that the chances of no deal went up following the most recent series of votes, so it is hardly off the table.

When you say Ireland will become desperate, start screaming and give way, is the implication that we’ll gain a sense of calm equanimity and stand firm in the face of the same doom. Are you saying that the Irish are weaker of will than us, or that we are more stupid/less sane?

I see the usual courtesy and manners are on display.

The macho world of the UK boardroom (AKA penis substitute) that got us diddly squat in Brussels.

Ive been out of the construction Industry for 4 years ( I no longer have to pay my exuberant fees to RICS and CIOB), therefore, I take on board everything you say matey, however, the building game has always been famine or feast, therefore, was always reluctant to directly employ more than a skeleton workforce directly, because of the uncertainty, up until recently people didn't want to work in the building industry. Was out with one of the directors from one of my old contractors, he was saying as such he had recently advertised for 2 apprentice Joiners and got 1 application. I also agree we do get certainly materials from overseas not only from the EU, however, I got fed up of contractors at monthly progress meetings having to explain late delivery because the materials were coming from outside the UK they can now as everyone else blame Brexit.

The last 15 years or so of my working Career, I worked in the Health Service (in Construction) if I had a scheme of over 1 million I think the threshold was which was not all but most of my schemes, I had to go through EOJU which was the European journal, this more than doubled the tender process, we got our budgets on the lst April and had to be completed, signed off and paid for by 1st of April the year after as that money was no longer there. we rarely got any EU companies sending in tenders, but when we did they never won any because of the prelims etc.

I have said it before, May has put a figure on what she would like to get immigration down to, my opinion is why put a number on it we need what we need if that's 100,000 then so be it. Neither do I understand when she says she will only want highly skilled Labour from overseas, I really don't know what that means or how that will help the building, hospitality industry etc.

I voted to leave and would do so again for many different reasons that I have also mentioned in a previous post, but i would like to point out that I and I would like to assume millions of other leave voters are not in the slightest against Immigration, I am against freedom of movement again for reasons I have also mentioned in previous posts.

Paul

Just for clarity, the OJOEU threshold has never been £1m,

You've landed on one of Mrs May's red lines - which appears to be something of a hangover from her days in the Home Office, when she was responsible for creating the 'Hostile Environment' - typified by her infamous speech where she stated we could 'deport first and ask questions later.' She is obsessed with immigration - but strangely didn't use the powers that were available to her as Home Sec to curtail EU migration.

It seems to me that the gammony, UKIP types, who certainly did have immigration as their main concern, were pandered to by the lies of Farage and Johnson in the referendum campaign - and Mrs May is both emboldened by that sentiment, and afeared of losing those people as voters, so sticks doggedly to the plan that allows her to end FoM - despite all the evidence that it would have a negative impact on the economy - and on UK migrants in the EU, who we rather sweetly refer to as ex-pats rather than migrants, because they're somehow nicer when they're British?

As for Cronus' analogy of a boardroom negotiation - it doesn't exist, apart from perhaps in his 80's movie fantasy world, where the protagonist risks everything to stare down his opponent and win the day; this isn't a business deal - it's a hugely complicated socio-economic partnership that has developed over 40 years and has seen the EU countries harmonise to an impressive and mutually beneficial degree; no amount of puffed up, self-important English bluster will make that any different - and any negotiator who used the threat of no-deal, and all the harm it would bring, as a bargaining chip, would not be taken seriously. If we must leave the EU, it is the responsibility of those in power to do so in a way that has the least harmful effect on the UK economy - which would of course be by staying in *a* customs union and being closely aligned to the single market... If only someone was proposing a plan like that.

Just as a general point, I do love a good debate and that's what were having here, even though I voted to leave, I do respect all the views of you guys that voted to remain, yes we do sometimes wonder where or how somebody has come to a particular opinion on both sides, I have heard people voted to remain because they still want to go on holiday or they see themselves as more European than British.

At heart we are all Rugby League fans, and for the most part and apart from the banter during the match, we do respect each other and all have something massive in common which is our game.

The point I want to make is Cum on the Wire (Its always our year)

Behaviour breeds behaviour. If you're going to be condescending expect it back.

No answer to the post? No surprise there.

You're making plenty of odd assumptions there.

The Irish are absolutely desperate to avoid a hard border. Moreso than anyone else at the table, including the UK. If negotiations fail to the point of no deal and a hard border, the EU MUST blink. It's nothing to do with being weak, it's simply the reality of the situation. If things reach that point do you think Ireland will simply carry on with their approach to date, which has been a very childish, "you chose to leave, you sort it out"?

It's not ideal and it would mark a failure of Parliament, but it could work to our advantage.

Similarly, it would mark a failure of the EU to negotiate reasonably. Let's face it, they don't have a glowing track record in crisis situations and another failure sends the wrong message to a already fragmenting Europe.

We may not be in a dominant position right now but the threat of a hard border is a a powerful one which overshadows everything else.

But puffed-up self-important EU bluster is fine?

You're not reading what I'm saying. If Parliament fail to agree a deal (which is a very real possibility), and the EU remain as stubborn as ever, the threat of a no deal and hard border looms over everything.

Point out where I've said we're using (or should be using) it as a threat. That anyone is sat in a boardroom staring down anyone. I haven't. But it doesn't change the fact it's still there in the background.

FYI boardroom negotiations are often also incredibly complex and can take years of talks involving dozens of different parties. The threat of walking away is always in the background, just as the threat of no deal/hard border is right now. No one generally says "do it or we walk away", but it's still a possibility right up to the point the process succeeds or fails.

It may have escaped your notice, but Ireland are an EU member and would be thrown off a cliff in the event of a hard border. They know it all too well, hence a hardening of their language in recent weeks. You think the EU will go along with that?

I fully accept it could go to sh#t and we all go off a cliff. But there is still time for the EU to finally show some flexibility when one of their members is under threat of a dire economic hit - a hit they can do something about

Hopefully a deal will be agreed and none of it will be necessary.