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Quote: "Capitalism is working fine - is the average standard of living of the population as a whole is still increasing. Standard of living is just about how much you earn. Do you have improving medical facilities, clinical techniques and more effective pharma? Are the roads better, do we have access to better housing stock, do we have cheap clean utilities etc.

Where are the challenges - a better spread of wealth, maintaining income post working age, the impact on the environment etc. Reduction in buying stuff - we seem to have a very disposable attitude to material items - look at the amount of clothes we all have?'"


You see, weโ€™re not so far apart on some things. icon_smile.gif

Iโ€™ve got poop to do now, but I might start a new thread based on this (quite long) article from the FT.

https://www.ft.com/content/5a8ab27e-d47 ... 7ebd53ab77

It makes a good point about renter/rent-seeking behaviours, imo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking


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Quote: "You see, weโ€™re not so far apart on some things.
I would agree of all the left-facing posters on here you are the most sensible.

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Quote: "Capitalism is working fine - is the average standard of living of the population as a whole is still increasing. Standard of living is just about how much you earn. Do you have improving medical facilities, clinical techniques and more effective pharma? Are the roads better, do we have access to better housing stock, do we have cheap clean utilities etc.

Where are the challenges - a better spread of wealth, maintaining income post working age, the impact on the environment etc. Reduction in buying stuff - we seem to have a very disposable attitude to material items - look at the amount of clothes we all have?'"


Although it would give the ecconomy a further shock, for the long term sustainably of the planet, we will either have to reduce the population and/or reduce consumption, which just doesn't fit with the capitalist model.
Remembering that the vast majority of the population in Asia, which is a huge and increasing percentage of overall population would generally be though of being at the poorer end of the financial spectrum and that they too will all aspire to the trappings of success ie house, car, improved standard of living etc, just where will the resources come from to provide this, not to mention the dreaded carbon emissions to produce the goods that they desire.
There needs to be a re think on how we ALL live our lives, something that will be at odds with the capitalist driven, self centred utopia that some of the more wealthy and aspirational members of the western world desire.

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Quote: "Although it would give the ecconomy a further shock, for the long term sustainably of the planet, we will either have to reduce the population and/or reduce consumption, which just doesn't fit with the capitalist model.
Remembering that the vast majority of the population in Asia, which is a huge and increasing percentage of overall population would generally be though of being at the poorer end of the financial spectrum and that they too will all aspire to the trappings of success ie house, car, improved standard of living etc, just where will the resources come from to provide this, not to mention the dreaded carbon emissions to produce the goods that they desire.
There needs to be a re think on how we ALL live our lives, something that will be at odds with the capitalist driven, self centred utopia that some of the more wealthy and aspirational members of the western world desire.'"

yay, our daily dose of wrencat envy politics...

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Quote: "yay, our daily dose of wrencat envy politics...'"


I don't see anything envious in that post, and it's hardly political. Go troll somewhere else.

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Quote: "I don't see anything envious in that post, and it's hardly political. Go troll somewhere else.'"

not trolling, just offering an opinion based on reality, not some idealogy that has failed numerous times. At least you haven't wished serious illness or death on anyone on this thread, yet.

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Quote: "Although it would give the ecconomy a further shock, for the long term sustainably of the planet, we will either have to reduce the population and/or reduce consumption, which just doesn't fit with the capitalist model.
Remembering that the vast majority of the population in Asia, which is a huge and increasing percentage of overall population would generally be though of being at the poorer end of the financial spectrum and that they too will all aspire to the trappings of success ie house, car, improved standard of living etc, just where will the resources come from to provide this, not to mention the dreaded carbon emissions to produce the goods that they desire.
There needs to be a re think on how we ALL live our lives, something that will be at odds with the capitalist driven, self centred utopia that some of the more wealthy and aspirational members of the western world desire.'"


Anyone who thinks that humans have anywhere near reached their limits of their potential is delusional. This planet has survived far greater issues that the current carbon-crisis - the idea that we all must return to some kind of new dark age is bonkers. In terms of natural resource there is an almost limitless supply and as we become more efficient we will use far less. Nuclear energy provides cheap clean and safe energy yet the ER folks think we should use wind and solar!!

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Quote: "Anyone who thinks that humans have anywhere near reached their limits of their potential is delusional. This planet has survived far greater issues that the current carbon-crisis - the idea that we all must return to some kind of new dark age is bonkers. In terms of natural resource there is an almost limitless supply and as we become more efficient we will use far less. Nuclear energy provides cheap clean and safe energy yet the ER folks think we should use wind and solar!!'"


icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
This really is hilarious.
Of course human beings haven't reached their limits, not even close.
However, what they have done, in their few thousand years, on a planet that has been turning for millions of years, is, to be too successful at breeding and in turn, burning the planets resources at an increasing rate - only an utter fool can try to argue that point.
You are right about Nuclear Energy being cheap and clean but, the half life of the waste created is so utterly long lasting that very few governments are rushing towards this as a solution, with an increasing amount going for renewables.
We are also warming the planet to a point where some areas WILL become inhabitable, forcing the growing population into ever decreasing spaces.
This isn't opinion, it's absolute fact.

Yes, humans are supremely resourceful and they will find a myriad of new ways to live on the planet, regardless of how hollowed out it becomes.
However, we should be trying to leave the place in a better state than when we arrived and, right now, I dont think that as a species, we are anywhere close to that.

Maybe one day, we will find that elusive planet in outer space that is capable of supporting human life and then, bingo, problem solved.

I know that we have never met but, your views the value of life and people, especially those less fortunate than yourself, are a long way from mine and even you should be able to see that if we manage the planets resources better, EVERYONE benefits.

Alternatively, we can just carry on till the end and screw whoever comes next. icon_surprised.gifops:

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