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Quote: JerryChicken "I just hope for your sake that Ian Duncan Smith doesn't read these forums because if he reads that he'll blow another fuse and dash to a Murdoch newspaper to absolutely deny your facts and replace the skivers and scroungers mantra back into the public domain.'"


The new NHS Party has been aiming them in his direction already. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Dead Man Walking "I get no housing benefits at all and I just get 25% off my Poll Tax.'"


If you mean you get a discount off your council tax because you are a single person, don't worry you will be next in line to have that "benefit" removed.

The same argument will apply to you. It will be if you don't want to pay the full council tax for a property of the band you live in, go and buy one in a lower band.

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Quote: DaveO "If you mean you get a discount off your council tax because you are a single person, don't worry you will be next in line to have that "benefit" removed.

The same argument will apply to you. It will be if you don't want to pay the full council tax for a property of the band you live in, go and buy one in a lower band.'"


... or go and educate yourself or train to get one of the millions of better-paid jobs that are out there.

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Quote: Dead Man Walking "Does anyone think that the people in this country would ever take part in one like the French and Russian Revolutions or are they too laid back and not bothered enough ?'"


Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent. Is that the same one that was imminent last time I went, 35 years ago, or a new one?

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Quote: Dally "Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent ...'"


They're too busy smearing assorted members who say they were raped by party leaders to be organising anything else.

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Quote: Dally "Went to a SWP meeting last night. Apparently the revolution is imminent. Is that the same one that was imminent last time I went, 35 years ago, or a new one?'"


Do they have SWP meetings in leafy Hertfordshire?

Well I never.............

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Quote: "Blimey – that's a lot of people in your family circle who come from broken families – did your parents all 'choose' that? Was your finance's mother irresponsible to have four children?'"


Your not talking to Kirkstaller here I know things don't work out but I wouldn't class every single parent family as a broken home, would you class someone with a deceased parent from a broken home? Probably not but then again a family with both parents there could be classed as a broken home depending on how the family life is

Quote: "

There is a shortage of jobs. This is a fact.

60% of benefits claimants are in work.

The 1

Ok

Quote: "More reality

Agree

Quote: "Your apparent desire that everyone should just go out and get 10 jobs – remember.

I was self employed from 2010 to 2012 until I got the job I'm in now and after 9 months on the agency I have worked hard enough not only to get taken on but to be offered a managers position.

Whilst self employed I had to go out and find the work, if I didnt get any work one week I wouldn't earn a penny so who pays my rent/mortgage for me?

Quote: "And this is against a background of income inequality having risen for 30-plus years.

That income inequality – it is bad for the whole of a society. Less equal societies have more crime, more negative health issues, more addiction, less educational achievement – and much more. More equal societies are better across these things and more (if you wish to read about this in detail, read [iThe Spirit Level[/i).'"


Was the author of that book on Newsnight the other night? I'll give it a read, I agree with you on that front.



Quote: "On belief – do you look back to what your own relatives went though and think it was A Good Thing? Do you feel nostalgia for it? Y'know

I look back with pride that they had the substance to overcome hardship into the position they are in now, I don't expect anyone to suffer I want people to go out and earn their money, you may know people who are out of work and in hardship and want to work and base your judgemnet on those people, from my experience in working in social housing a lot of them didn't work some never have.


Quote: "And let's do another myth while we're at it – his 'hard-working taxpayer' one. Most of us are fortunate enough to not have to work very hard. By comparison with a hospital cleaner or porter, I don't. I very much doubt you work anything like as hard as the grandfather you mention. Or the same hospital porter or cleaner.

Yet it seems that you – and plenty of others – actively want hard-working people in unsexy but essential jobs to suffer. Why? It's not good for society. It's not good for productivity. What is it good for?'"


No I never worked as hard as a miner but fitting 1 day central heating is hard graft, well paid hard graft but I went to college for 4 years on £50 a week apprenticeship and worked behind a bar 2 nights a week and at a bookies on a Saturday so that I could learn to become a gas engineer/plumber and earn decent money. Now I'm in a different job where I don't break a sweat, because after I came out of my time I stayed on at college for another 4 years funded by myself 2 nights a week after work to do my HNC/HND in Construction.

Quote: "As I said, do you really look back at what various members of your own family went through and think everybody should experience a bit more like that?'"


I expect the government to provide the opportunity for people to work for a living and not have to rely on state handouts (obviously pensioners, disbabled and carers etc exempt)

If it weren't for the last Labour Governent god knows where I would have ended up, without their Asset Training Scheme I wouldn't have been able to have complete my apprenticeship which was funded by the Government at the cost of £50 a week payed to me which they invested well and now I don't need to rely on them.

Like I said, the benefits system needs overhauling massively to rid the idle from the taxpayers hard earned but first the opportunity to get into work and training must be implemented but somehow I can't see the Tories doing that.

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Quote: post "
If it weren't for the last Labour Governent god knows where I would have ended up, without their Asset Training Scheme I wouldn't have been able to have complete my apprenticeship which was funded by the Government at the cost of £50 a week payed to me which they invested well and now I don't need to rely on them.

Like I said, the benefits system needs overhauling massively to rid the idle from the taxpayers hard earned but first the opportunity to get into work and training must be implemented but somehow I can't see the Tories doing that.'"



The strange thing is that David Cameron has been speaking TODAY about that very thing, the opportunity to give every school leaver not gong into FE an apprenticeship of some description.

Of course he isn't mentioning how to fund any of this and I suspectr that he isn't going to offer any sort of help at all because he's also spoken of how private businesses have to help out, but it just goes to show that nothing is new in politics and the fact that he was visiting a training college today and had to think of something to say probably had nothing to do with it at all.


Of course - 'twas always done this way when I was a trainee back in the good old 1970s...

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Quote: WIZEB "Do they have SWP meetings in leafy Hertfordshire?

Well I never.............'"


Whilst my comment was tongue in cheek - they do. I recall Titan going to one when he was a school at the behest of a friend and one of his teachers was there! He thought the whole bunch of them were deluded imbeciles (which they are). Mind you that meeting was in the seedy Metropolis of St Albans.

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Quote: Dally "Whilst my comment was tongue in cheek - they do. ]I recall Titan going to one when he was a school at the behest of a friend] and one of his teachers was there! He thought the whole bunch of them were deluded imbeciles (which they are). Mind you that meeting was in the seedy Metropolis of St Albans.'"


I reckon there good have been some gays there as well?
I'm now starting to understand your need for questioning the lads sexuality.

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Quote: JerryChicken "The strange thing is that David Cameron has been speaking TODAY about that very thing, the opportunity to give every school leaver not gong into FE an apprenticeship of some description.

Of course he isn't mentioning how to fund any of this and I suspectr that he isn't going to offer any sort of help at all because he's also spoken of how private businesses have to help out, but it just goes to show that nothing is new in politics and the fact that he was visiting a training college today and had to think of something to say probably had nothing to do with it at all.


Of course - 'twas always done this way when I was a trainee back in the good old 1970s...'"


Camoron was visiting MBUK's training facility at Milton Keynes today. Those young apprentices he was seen with were employed by their dealerships and the training will have been funded by those same dealerships too.

It was also announced today that any over 24 year old who is accepted on an apprentice course will fund his own training through loans similar to those offered to students.

As with YTS and all the other smokescreen programmes before, the only "investment" government will be making is what they'd have paid in unemployment benefit anyway

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Although to be fair, when thee and me were nobbut young fresh out of school trainees, our company's paid for our training too, possibly the colleges were more subsidised and thus the fees cheaper, but the company paid.

For five years in the case of the trade I was in, from the age of sixteen to twenty one by which time you were expected to be doing the same job as a fully qualified forty year old or you were out on your ear.

And there was nothing wrong at all with that system, it wasn't in the slightest bit broken and yet someone decided they knew better and decided to tamper with it.

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Quote: JerryChicken "It may come as some surprise to you, but quite often some children are born that were not part of a carefully scripted life plan, there was no spreadsheet to pinpoint the optimum financial moment at which to give birth, some kids just happen.'"

Children never 'just happen'. They are the result of a choice. People choose to have sex and when they choose to do that they know that there is the risk of pregnancy even when using contraception (and absolutely nobody of any age these days has an excuse not to use contraception - it is freely available even to those under 16 and discussed throughout school and just about everywhere else).

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Quote: Mintball "And so when people start out by asserting, from a point of assumption, that they know that everything that happens to a person is the result of specific choices, it's very, very much in the terrain of the blaming people for being poor.'"

It really isn't. Some people do choose to be poorThat Mary didn't choose to have a child out of marriage, did she? '"

Mockery doesn't become you. However, Mary was betrothed to Joseph and that counted for something in the culture of the day much as betrothal used to have meaning in English culture. While not ideal, if a woman became pregnant during betrothal then all could be forgiven so long as the marriage went ahead and nobody else got involved with the woman.

Quote: Mintball "expect telling people to pay their taxes and advising that riches will make it difficult to get into his dad's gaff.'"

Jesus did say some stuff about relationships. He made a point of telling the woman at the well that she'd had a few husbands and to go away and sin no more. Oh, and he didn't say that riches will make it difficult to get into his dad's gaff, only that being rich makes it harder for the rich person to do the necessary in order to get there - ie, put his dad above his possessions in order of priority.

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Quote: El Barbudo "So, because they've got unfortunate, uncaring or stupid parents, we should just pretend that the kids don't need our help then?'"

That there is such a dilemma indicates how wrong the system has gone. Our benefits system as originally constructed was for the short term help of the unfortunate and elderly. The original author did not want his system to be a long term commitment because he was very aware of how dependent people would become upon it (read it for yourself). That has indeed happened. How to pull it all back? It's a dilemma because there is the risk of harm to children but that doesn't mean that the issue shouldn't be faced and that something shouldn't be done.

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