FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17952 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
|
| Quote: Cronus "You and I both know the EU in its current form is light years away from what was voted for in the 70s - and probably from what it seeks to be in another 40 years. The creeping enforcement of an ideology over what should only ever have been a trading arrangement.
If a second referendum is called and remain wins, why should I respect that? Very, very few on the remain side have ever respected the first result, instead they've derided and condemned and fought against the entire process, all the while lying through their teeth to "respect the result". You want leavers to happily accept their first votes being rejected? Dangerous ground.
You obviously don't give a tinker's toss for the views of 17.4M people across vast swathes of England and Wales. I don't know where you live but I'll guess Wakefield (or at least you hail from there) - 66.4% leave. You obviously don't give a tinker's toss about the views of your own community.'"
You completely ignored the "democratic vote" in Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland issue ??
As for the people of Wakefield, you may be right, as my view is different to the majority who voted in this area.
Back in the day, the majority also thought that the world was flat and they got that wrong as well
More than happy to be in a minority though and supporting Trinity usually means an uphill struggle.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 455 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2023 | Mar 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "IF Brexit was reversed (by a second referendum), surely, the majority would be getting what they wanted ??
Remember, Brexit is already reversing the will of the people who voted in the 70's.
Also, the vote already leaves large areas of the UK, Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland, having something imposed on them which they clearly voted against.
Indeed, one of the factors during the Scottish Independence vote, was that Cameron assured them that we would remain in the EU. Obviously you don't give a tinkers toss about their views.'"
I really can't believe you stated that we are reversing the will of the people in the 1970's, with all respect that is scraping the bottom of the barrel, easy I also add what was voted for way way back in the 70's was a common market it was NOT a rule maker as it is now.
I think you should give the Scottish people just a little bit of respect, if Cameron or any politician promised you something would you actually believe it, if he did actually promise that.
You are the typical remain voter we hear on tv using words like Crashing out, falling off the edge of the cliff etc
Can I also point out the Wales voted to leave.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7152 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
12389.gif :12389.gif |
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "You completely ignored the "democratic vote" in Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland issue ??
As for the people of Wakefield, you may be right, as my view is different to the majority who voted in this area.
Back in the day, the majority also thought that the world was flat and they got that wrong as well
I edited my reply while you typed this I think.
I haven't ignored anything, far from it. But we voted as the UK, and as much as wee Jimmy might wish otherwise, Scotland is part of the UK, as is Norn Iron. Wales voted leave so I'm not sure what your point is there?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 31838 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Cronus "Yes, perhaps history books would be a good idea. Silencing the people is never a good idea. Especially when they have already exercised their democratic right - and won.
If Brexit were reversed I would absolutely vote for whichever far right party emerged from the mess, and damn the consequences. Why shouldn't I? While there are plenty of genuine and good MPs in Westminster, too many across all parties are self-serving and see themselves as above the people. To enact the democratic result of the referendum a drastic change would be required.
Answer me this
So in your view you'd go full fascist if necessary.
You're obviously not a full shilling.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7152 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
12389.gif :12389.gif |
|
| Quote: Bullseye "So in your view you'd go full fascist if necessary.
You're obviously not a full shilling.'"
Answer my questions.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 783 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2019 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2019 | May 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Cronus "Answer my questions.'"
Don't be silly, he's a socialist, they don't need to answer questions, just argue around in circles.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 12642 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Cronus "I'll never vote Labour while Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are stillaround, and the Lib Dems etc are too far bonkers left for me. Frankly by that point I'd be beyond caring and I will not have my voice silenced by self-serving vultures in Westminster. My vote goes elsewhere.'"
I understand and even share frustrations with our democratic process. Our first past the post system has led to swing voters in marginal seats being targeted and everybody else being largely ignored. I think the referendum caught most politicians off guard, as they were so used to chasing voters in the middle that when those perceived as being on the edge had just as an important voice, they didn’t know how to speak to them.
On a, sort of, more positive note - the leadership of the two largest parties are both committed to delivering Brexit, they just can’t agree on which type. I think claims of betrayal are premature... or maybe just pre-emptive, or habitual. POSTL wants to Leave but thinks we won’t, i voted remain but i’m pretty certain we’ll leave. Maybe we’ve all just been conditioned to expect disappointment.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 455 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2023 | Mar 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "IF Farage (or anyone else stoke the prospect of civil unrest, it will happen).
Regardless of Brexit, we've had 10 years of austerity and although unemployment may be down, generally, people are hacked off with the way that the country had been run.
Protests are possible from all factions and it doesnt take too much to escalate protest into something close to riot
As for voting for an extremist party such as new (even further right) UKIP, people need to think just what they are voting for and for idiots like Farage to be stoking this fire as an idle threat is just down right irresponsible.
Mind you, he will probably bee out of the country when it all turns nasty and saying that he had nothing to do with it.'"
To be fair Farage did not stoke the prospect of civil unrest, I was answering someone else and didn't want to go into it to much. He was asked if there would be protests, civil unrest etc if the leave vote was overturned, he replied to the effect that civil unrest is not the British way and we should leave that to the French. Sorry mate for causing confusion.
I would love someone like Farage to take back control of UKIP to stop its possible move to the far right. Then I would at least have someone to vote for
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 12642 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Cronus "Answer my questions.'"
Why shouldn’t somebody vote for a far right party?
If by a far right party you mean something like the BNP or current version of UKIP, then because angry bigotry doesn’t solve anything and is horribly dangerous.
If you mean a breakaway Farage-Johnson-JRM Brexit party, then it’s not to my taste and would doubtless attract dog-whistling types, but it’s not what i’d define as far right.
As for far right vs status quo, there are other options - I don’t think saying you’re unhappy with how things are so you’re chucking your lot in with the Tommy Robinsons and Nick Griffins of the world would be a justifiable position.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7152 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
12389.gif :12389.gif |
|
| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "100% agree, I voted remain, but the MAJORITY voted leave, but wrencat and his mates would like Corbyn in power, so that tells us everything. May is weak, but she passed a poisoned chalice by Cameron.
We need the REAL Conservative party to stand up, at the moment there is no spine in government and precious little even in wider parliament.'"
We need the Conservative Party united behind May to get this deal voted through. There are some signs the ERG are softening but it's nowhere near enough while so many agendas are being pushed.
Thankfully it's unlikely Corbyn would win a GE even now. That's a truly damning reflection of his leadership and his strategy.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 783 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2019 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2019 | May 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: Cronus "We need the Conservative Party united behind May to get this deal voted through. There are some signs the ERG are softening but it's nowhere near enough while so many agendas are being pushed.
Thankfully it's unlikely Corbyn would win a GE even now. That's a truly damning reflection of his leadership and his strategy.'"
Leadership?
Strategy?
Does he have either?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17952 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
|
| Quote: Cronus "We need the Conservative Party united behind May to get this deal voted through. There are some signs the ERG are softening but it's nowhere near enough while so many agendas are being pushed.
Thankfully it's unlikely Corbyn would win a GE even now. That's a truly damning reflection of his leadership and his strategy.'"
I agree about Corbyn but, equally, not ALL Tories will unite behind May on this one.
Just like Corbyn, there are factions and politicians in the Tory party that just want a turn in the BIG chair and they are prepared to take a "hit" elsewhere (Brexit) to achieve their aims.
I cant see it happen but, there should be a free vote on a couple of the Brexit options and those MP's in "leave" constituencies should represent their voting public properly or, we could remain in the customs union, delivering a partial Brexit and "keep the band in the nick".
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 783 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2019 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2019 | May 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
: |
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "I agree about Corbyn but, equally, not ALL Tories will unite behind May on this one.
Just like Corbyn, there are factions and politicians in the Tory party that just want a turn in the BIG chair and they are prepared to take a "hit" elsewhere (Brexit) to achieve their aims.
I cant see it happen but, there should be a free vote on a couple of the Brexit options and those MP's in "leave" constituencies should represent their voting public properly or, we could remain in the customs union, delivering a partial Brexit and "keep the band in the nick".
The people had a vote, they voted leave, no other vote is required.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 12642 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
|
| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "The people had a vote, they voted leave, no other vote is required.'"
Do you support the deal Theresa May negotiated with the EU27?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17952 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
|
| Quote: MGarbutt1986 "The people had a vote, they voted leave, no other vote is required.'"
I was referring to our elected members in Westminster, not the general public.
Personally, I think that a second referendum would make things even worse (unless there was a huge swing - in either direction).
|
|
|
|
|
|