I can't see how you can criticise Corbyn for lack of commitment then praise May for the same thing.

But that's the point, isn't it.
May didn't want to leave but she has tried to sort out a deal to do leave.
Corbyn has been a Eurosceptic over the years and has pretended that he wants to leave but, has NEVER fully committed himself either way, just in case there is a change of direction in the political wind.

May has made a total bollocks of arranging a deal but that doesn't mean that she personally has swayed with the wind. It just means that she is inept as a leader.

I dont think that May's commitment is in question, just her ability.

Corbyn's commitment on Europe IS still in doubt. Remember, Labour fought the last election on a "leave" card, as they didn't want to b seen to be going against the referendum result. Enough said.

Sweet Jesus. When are you lot going to understand? THE EU WILL NOT REFORM. EVER. They've repeated it a million times, and they gave David Cameron nothing meaningful. Even when one of their biggest, most important members starts to leave, they refuse to reform. When their ideology is causing resentment, anger and a rise in the far right across Europe, they refuse to reform. When the Mediterranean economies are are their *rse and populations are flocking north for work, they refuse to reform. Their ideology is set in stone and the decision-makers are all devotees.

All this talk of 'remain and reform' is unicorn stuff (that seems to be the phrase of choice right now). Or in other words, utter bollox. It will not happen.

That's one of the main reasons I voted leave. If the EU had shown any sign of a willingness to reform, my vote would have changed. But no, their language hardened and became scathing, which made my decision even easier.

As for Corbyn - when he became Labour leader actually I respected him for not playing the politics game; for his straight-talking and honesty, even if I vehemently disagree with his ideology. That soon respect soon vanished. He's as evasive as any politician.

Let's just get a few things clear on Corbyn and the EU. He:
- Opposed membership of the EEC
- Voted 'No' in the 1975 referendum
- Opposed the Maastricht Treaty
- Opposed the Lisbon Treaty
- Supported an in/out referendum in 2011
- Has repeatedly been filmed enthusiastically denouncing the structure and ideology of the EU - all before he became Labour leader and started the strategy games of course.
- Has been suspiciously non-committal throughout Brexit, until his Labour strategists dictated the best approach to bring about a disastrous Brexit, and thus bring down the government and force a General Election. That's what they're doing, in case you're not aware. Throwing us all to the wall for a shot at No.10.

Socialists can't agree on the EU. Some love it, some loath it, some tolerate it. I'm not sure Corbyn is bothered either way.

So the farce continues until October, atthe behest of the EU, we are never going to leave with May as PM, despote what people voted for. As much as I wanted to remain, I see more clearly that our MP's and the EU don't give a flying fig about the general public.

In the case of MPs they are trying to do what they think is best, considering/balancing the democratic imperative to leave against protecting/promoting what they each regard as the country’s best interests. Even the ones I disagree with profoundly are doing what they sincerely regard as best.

The issue is that there was never a single clear vision for it, allowing people to project onto it what they wanted. That was great for Leave but hugely problematic for leaving, because it is still happening and the different visions are really, really difficult to reconcile and everybody thinks their version is the one true or best Brexit. And that’s before we get to the 48% who weren’t impressed in the first place, and the fact we have a hung parliament.

As for the EU... are we still looking to them to take care of our figs and stuff? What does them giving a fig look like in these circumstances? Are you suggesting they should have hastened our departure, despite our request for a delay?

We’re in a strange place where there is no democratic dividend to doing anything, only recriminations from those who’ll feel betrayed. So we’re trapped in this Kafkaesque political purgatory. And it is completely of our own making. We have boxed ourselves in absolutely brilliantly. If it was a ‘what if?’ fiction, it’d feel far fetched, but here we are. Still.

We will end up with a GE, and a borrow and spend Labour government, the next recession they lead us in to.

It will make a pleasant change from greedy capitalists causing a world recession hey nutjob?

same old insults, you are boring.

In 1996, the year before Labour came to power, the UK had debt of 44.3% of GDP.

Fast forward 10 years to 2006, Labour’s 10th year in power, their so called borrow and spend policies have somehow led to our debt fall to 40.8% of GDP.

Now, thanks to our strong and stable conservative government cutting spending on essential services and cutting taxes for the rich and multinational companies, we have debt of 86.58% of GDP.

The world global financial crisis wasn’t in fact started by labour, but on Wall Street with the collapse of banks in the US. But don’t let facts and statistics get in the way of your agenda.

Mr Brown sold our gold, at the bottom of the market,, brilliant fiscal policy.

We are not going to agree, ever, and I am not interested in arguments.

Have a safe and happy life.

If you know whether the price of gold is going to rise or fall, I suggest you buy and sell gold and make your millions. Was it a good move, in hindsight probably not, but the current government have done much worse.

I have stated facts and statistics, what are you never going to agree with, are you saying the statistics are wrong?

So why are you on here? Even in your shallow world you must have something more interesting to fill your time?

more insults, how very intelligent and grown up you are.

MGarbutt1986 is just one of those capitalist apologists who you get on every forum and message board the world over. They give it all the big talk, cupping the virtual balls of the billionaires, because they too think that one day it will be them who is cashing the telephone number cheques, and they don't want anyone else having a slice of the pie. The truth is, they don't even end up with the crumbs.