| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > US Presidential election 2020 |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Leaders who have dealt with the pandemic well have seen bounces in their approval ratings. Trump's fundamental weakness as a leader meant he saw the opposite happen.
Being bad at your job tends to have consequences.'"
Maybe you could provide some examples? Don't thrown minor countries like Aus and NZ at us, let's go for the more influential economies in the world. |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Leaders who have dealt with the pandemic well have seen bounces in their approval ratings. Trump's fundamental weakness as a leader meant he saw the opposite happen.
Being bad at your job tends to have consequences.'"
I agree with you and Trump basically said to each state - you are on your own no crap sticks on me. He closed the borders, which had zero impact and then basically gave up.
I don't think you can compare the likes if NZ and Aus - these are low density countries with very limited movement of people when compared to the larger European countries same goes for the SE Asian countries.
What we need to understand is why our death rate is so high - still. |
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| Quote: wire-quin "Maybe you could provide some examples? Don't thrown minor countries like Aus and NZ at us, let's go for the more influential economies in the world.'"
Deaths per million of population.
I have linked only to larger economies
Uk. 1263
Germany. 542
Canada. 462
Japan 34 ( and that ina country full of old people!)
Denmark 286
Malaysia 18
South Korea 24 |
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| Quote: Durham Giant "Deaths per million of population.
I have linked only to larger economies
Uk. 1263
Germany. 542
Canada. 462
Japan 34 ( and that ina country full of old people!)
Denmark 286
Malaysia 18
South Korea 24'"
What is the population density in these countries i.e. population per sqKm
UK 278/sqkm
Canada 4/sqkm
Still I'm not sure what else we could have done other than be in permanent lockdown for a year - our cases are too high for track and trace - 50k a day say each person has 5 contacts that 250k a day in isolation!! |
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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "What is the population density in these countries i.e. population per sqKm
UK 278/sqkm
Canada 4/sqkm
Still I'm not sure what else we could have done other than be in permanent lockdown for a year - our cases are too high for track and trace - 50k a day say each person has 5 contacts that 250k a day in isolation!!'"
Of course population density over a whole country is utterly irrelevant, as you well know.
Canadians don't live equally spaced out across their vast country, that's a lame talking point even for a government apologist. |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Of course population density over a whole country is utterly irrelevant, as you well know.
Canadians don't live equally spaced out across their vast country, that's a lame talking point even for a government apologist.'"
I would have thought it would have a impact if the virus is spread person to person isn't that the whole point of lockdown. Density will matter surely?
I am not an apologist for the Government - I think their handling could have been a lot better - not sure how many deaths it would have prevented but the messaging has been appalling. |
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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "I would have thought it would have a impact if the virus is spread person to person isn't that the whole point of lockdown. Density will matter surely?'"
Canadian cities are as densely populated as British cities. And the vast majority of Canadians - 80%+ live in those big cities.
They have a great, vast country. But nobody is living in most of it. Population density over an entire country is irrelevant. |
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Jamie Jones-Buchanan
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire"
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Canadian cities are as densely populated as British cities. And the vast majority of Canadians - 80%+ live in those big cities.
They have a great, vast country. But nobody is living in most of it. Population density over an entire country is irrelevant.'"
It's a usefull straw to grasp at if you are trying to justify voting tory though. |
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| Quote: Ovavoo "]
It's a usefull straw to grasp at if you are trying to justify voting tory though.'"
Boooom
Something these lot are getting increasingly adapt at doing |
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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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I found this article from September last year interesting and persuasive. With hindsight, also prophetic, regarding the aftermath of the US election.
https://www.noemamag.com/welcome-to-the ... -twenties/
I think the historical examples of the Corn Laws-Peterloo-Whig reform and FDR’s New Deal are powerful because they will evoke positive responses across the political spectrum. I think the point about some liberal priorities being important (to liberals at least) and legitimate, but not really offering a solution to the underlying problems is fair. Not that you can’t have both greater social justice and economic reforms, but we do have to talk about both to get there. |
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I found this article from September last year interesting and persuasive. With hindsight, also prophetic, regarding the aftermath of the US election.
https://www.noemamag.com/welcome-to-the ... -twenties/
I think the historical examples of the Corn Laws-Peterloo-Whig reform and FDR’s New Deal are powerful because they will evoke positive responses across the political spectrum. I think the point about some liberal priorities being important (to liberals at least) and legitimate, but not really offering a solution to the underlying problems is fair. Not that you can’t have both greater social justice and economic reforms, but we do have to talk about both to get there. | |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Canadian cities are as densely populated as British cities. And the vast majority of Canadians - 80%+ live in those big cities.
They have a great, vast country. But nobody is living in most of it. Population density over an entire country is irrelevant.'"
There are vast distances between these cities: Toronto to Montreal is c350 miles, Toronto to Vancouver c2,700 miles so infection can be contained a lot more easily in large communities with plenty of distance between large conurbations rather than England where there are very small distances between concentrated conurbations?
How do you explain why Belgium has had such a bad time of it - population is c1,000 sq mile - there has to be a correlation? |
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| Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "There are vast distances between these cities
My 14 year old son has a better understanding than you seem to
density in South Korea is 1,366 people per mile yet they have not had a bad a time as the UK plus being closer to China and with more links to the pandemic starting.
In Brazil it is 68.57 per mile but they have a huge number of deaths
That above should suggest that Other factors other than population density comes into it. One of the key factors in determine how bad Covid has struck has been political decisions on how best to deal with it ( although there are many other factors )
But in the top 10 worst affected countries the correlation between Covid is who is running the country ie politicians who denying it, refusing lockdowns, promoting herd immunity , effective dictatorships etc are big factors ie Brazil bolsonaro, Us Trump, Uk Boris, Russia Putin etc etc
Yes Canada may have big differences in distance between cities and maybe 200 years ago before people had Aeroplanes or Trains or Cars that might have made a difference BUT now people travel large distances very quickly . They don’t just travel on dog sled and horses . If you are in a pub in a big city in Belgium or Canada the virus spreads the same way
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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "There are vast distances between these citiesI don't have anything to add to what DG says.
I don't understand why you can't get your head around what aren't terribly complicated concepts. Of course there is a correlation between how tightly packed people are at a very, very localised level - i.e. inside a supermarket or a pub. But that simply doesn't translate upwards to population density over a city, let alone a county/state or country. There are far more important variables than that random metric.
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| Quote: Durham Giant "My 14 year old son has a better understanding than you seem to
density in South Korea is 1,366 people per mile yet they have not had a bad a time as the UK plus being closer to China and with more links to the pandemic starting.
In Brazil it is 68.57 per mile but they have a huge number of deaths
That above should suggest that Other factors other than population density comes into it. One of the key factors in determine how bad Covid has struck has been political decisions on how best to deal with it ( although there are many other factors )
But in the top 10 worst affected countries the correlation between Covid is who is running the country ie politicians who denying it, refusing lockdowns, promoting herd immunity , effective dictatorships etc are big factors ie Brazil bolsonaro, Us Trump, Uk Boris, Russia Putin etc etc
Yes Canada may have big differences in distance between cities and maybe 200 years ago before people had Aeroplanes or Trains or Cars that might have made a difference BUT now people travel large distances very quickly . They don’t just travel on dog sled and horses . If you are in a pub in a big city in Belgium or Canada the virus spreads the same way'"
I didn't say population density was the only cause but it will have been a contributory factor. Whilst you might get movement of people it will not be as prevalent as say movement between Leeds and Manchester - easy to go 30 miles in a car not so easy to do 300 or 2,000 Ottawa to Edmonton? Are you saying it is all political decisions that caused such a bad outcome? |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "I don't have anything to add to what DG says.
I don't understand why you can't get your head around what aren't terribly complicated concepts. Of course there is a correlation between how tightly packed people are at a very, very localised level - i.e. inside a supermarket or a pub. But that simply doesn't translate upwards to population density over a city, let alone a county/state or country. There are far more important variables than that random metric.'"
How do you explain the huge increases in York and Harrogate - Mr. know-it-all? |
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