There is a very solid argument that the British Empire was effectively the English Empire, and that it began to develop from the Age of Discovery, in England's case with John Cabot. The interesting point is that this expansion began under the Tudors, a Welsh dynasty that ruled England, followed by a Scottish dynasty, the Stuarts, followed by a series of German and Dutch houses that we have retained right up to this day (albeit now as ceremonial figureheads rather than absolute rulers). Leading to the claim that Richard III was the last "English" ruler of England (I'm not entirely convinced about this claim given 1) the Plantagenets were a branch of the House of Anjou and 2) such distinctions belong to a era before the modern nation state emerged).

A Venetian – which adds to your point.

In similar vein, Henry VIII had to bring in French expertise on cannon production to give us the weaponary that would build the Navy.



All correct – and yes, it is all interesting, not least perhaps, in terms of how few people either realise or acknowledge such things.



I’d agree with all that. I’d add that the issue of size and population is also one that, I think, influences feelings about immigration/migration.

We are incredibly densely populated.

The UK is 256 people per square km.

England, though, is 419 people per square km. In a list of countries and dependencies in Europe, that only has Monaco, Gibraltar, Vatican City, Malta, Guernsey, Jersey and San Marino ahead of it.

Germany is 233, Italy 192 and France 111, Spain 88. Sweden is just 20.

Looked at another way

Fair points all: I don’t think we’re actually disagreeing. Perhaps I could have been clearer: I think we make the mistake of still trying to play the superpower role – most often and most obviously in terms of our relationship with the US and military action.

It's official - the country is going down the pan as a resukt of immigration. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ng-it.html

It's official - the country is going down the pan as a resukt of immigration. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ng-it.html

Only tried to use one once in China. The results even made me laugh. Thankfully my foot went in the hole before I had begun my business.
Frankly the state of the seats on most UK public traps I have used actually makes the idea of a squat toilet appealing.

A very close and dear friend of mine is Lithuanian. She came to this country 7 years ago with the intention of "working a few months and then going home with some money in my pocket". Her first job was picking strawberries and at the end of her first (72 hour) week, was given £55 for all her efforts. As the strawberry season wound down, she took a job order-picking in a warehouse, followed by any number of other mundane jobs. Somewhere along the way, she discovered an aptitude for writing code, now works for an IT solutions company, where she is considered their Java guru and is close to being awarded a BSc from the OU.

She now has absolutely no intention of returning to "her country" (she never calls it "home"icon_wink.gif, other than for a short break. From arriving here with no worthwhile qualifications, she is contributing to the economy and society in general but there are many who would have been happy to deny her entry and lose a valuable resource.

rlImmigration impact report withheld by Downing Streetrl.

Just missing "Some bloke in the pub said" for a full list then?