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Quote: wrencat1873 "Was the evidence that Blair was using not from our "friends" across the pond.
Either way, if America says jump, it's very hard to keep our feet on the ground.

It's the price that we have to pay for their support when we need it.

It wouldn't have mattered who was in power, it would have been impossible to say no, even if, as has been proven since, the WMD simply weren't there.'"


Nail......Head icon_biggrin.gif

And also all the Tory Arms Dealers pushed it icon_biggrin.gif

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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif



Quote: wrencat1873 "Was the evidence that Blair was using not from our "friends" across the pond.
Either way, if America says jump, it's very hard to keep our feet on the ground.

It's the price that we have to pay for their support when we need it.

It wouldn't have mattered who was in power, it would have been impossible to say no, even if, as has been proven since, the WMD simply weren't there.'"

I don't think this is quite right. Maybe in modern times and obviously with Conservative leaders who would be all-in for any war going but I do think there was something specific to Blair which made him more likely to want to join in than other Labour leaders.

Let's not forget Good Old Mr Wilson who managed to resist the pressure at a much more difficult moment when we were much more reliant on the USA financially but who reversed the previous Conservative government's initial involvement and decisively kept us out of Vietnam.
I don't think that even crossed Blair's mind with regard to Iraq.

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "I don't think this is quite right. Maybe in modern times and obviously with Conservative leaders who would be all-in for any war going but I do think there was something specific to Blair which made him more likely to want to join in than other Labour leaders.

Let's not forget Good Old Mr Wilson who managed to resist the pressure at a much more difficult moment when we were much more reliant on the USA financially but who reversed the previous Conservative government's initial involvement and decisively kept us out of Vietnam.
I don't think that even crossed Blair's mind with regard to Iraq.'"


You may be right about Wilson but, the point still stands.
How much choice do you think that Blair actually had and what may have been going on in the background to help "convince" him to join the Yanks.
It's certainly a fair assumption that ANY Tory PM would have done the same and perhaps only Corbyn on the Labour side of the political line would have said no, had he been PM, which he never got too close to becoming.

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: wrencat1873 "You may be right about Wilson but, the point still stands.
How much choice do you think that Blair actually had and what may have been going on in the background to help "convince" him to join the Yanks.
It's certainly a fair assumption that ANY Tory PM would have done the same and perhaps only Corbyn on the Labour side of the political line would have said no, had he been PM, which he never got too close to becoming.'"


I would have been very difficult to say ‘no’. However, Blair was a very keen advocate. The US would have gone in anyway and it would have been a fiasco (I recommend the book of that title by Thomas E. Ricks) with or without the UK. But it was with the UK thanks in very large part thanks to Blair.

That, along with being asleep at the wheel (see also the entire economic system) for the financial crisis of 2007-2008 and PFI were the major failings of New Labour, imo. Would it have been better under Hague or Duncan-Smith or Howard? Probably not. But that is like trying to shift the blame for Johnson’s failings to Corbyn.

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Brilliant.
The ones who voted against were unpatriotic, Labour who voted for were liars and the only virtuous ones were those apparently gullible Conservatives.

I applaud you for this framing, it's genius and echoes one of those most beloved and despicable right wing lies

Would you say the likes of Corbyn - who voted against are patriotic?

Most knew there was a significant element of doubt but I suppose the inbuilt colonial mentality set in with the Tories - let's kill Johnnie foreigner - is that what you are really trying to say.

The Tories I'm sure didn't agree with Blair but their love/arrogance of/about Britain override common sense.

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Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "Would you say the likes of Corbyn - who voted against are patriotic?

'"
Yes, of course. Only people who have lived far too long in the swamp of right wing media believe the lies that people with opposing views are less British or less 'patriotic', if that's a thing. It's dangerous and subversive and you should be smart enough to see through it.

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Quote: Zoo Zoo Boom "Would you say the likes of Corbyn - who voted against are patriotic?
'"


Corbyn has always been a man of peace and has condemned violence on both sides of any conflict. Unfortunately, that approach doesn't always go down well in countries that rely heavily upon arms sales.

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Quote: silver2 "Corbyn has always been a man of peace and has condemned violence on both sides of any conflict. Unfortunately, that approach doesn't always go down well in countries that rely heavily upon arms sales.'"


Really - you seem to have a blinkered view of Jeremy's previous history

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Corbyn - against the Falklands war, against the Gulf war, against the Afghanistan war, against the Iraq war, against involvement in Syria.

Right wingers - he's a warmonger.

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I see we have added a second plane to the government fleet but at what cost who knows it’s a secret. I wonder how much money he has spent on his various projects including the new media room, a bankrupt satellite company and now a second plane.

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Rlfans - the most toxic rugby league forum in the world:



This is hilarious. You’ve all tried to blame the tories for the Labour Party murdering millions of innocent non whites.

This. This is the reason no one takes your party seriously! It’s hilarious

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Nice of you to use the deaths of millions for the butt of your joke. Troll.

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Jamie Jones-Buchanan "I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire" And neither would any Lancastrian.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1673.jpg



Quote: Steph Curry "This is hilarious. You’ve all tried to blame the tories for the Labour Party murdering millions of innocent non whites.

This. This is the reason no one takes your party seriously! It’s hilarious'"


Class. Bet saints are proud to have you as a fan, not.

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Quote: Ovavoo "Class. Bet saints are proud to have you as a fan, not.'"

He's only a pretend Saints fan for the benefit of posters like yourself eager to have a dig, he's stated on a regular basis that Union is far superior to league.

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Jamie Jones-Buchanan "I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire" And neither would any Lancastrian.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_1673.jpg



Quote: happyjack "He's only a pretend Saints fan for the benefit of posters like yourself eager to have a dig, he's stated on a regular basis that Union is far superior to league.'"


I see. I'll humour him in future.

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6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
26s
2025 merchandise
FIL
16
38s
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40747
2m
Film game
Boss Hog
5674
2m
Its all gone a bit quiet
orangeman
22
3m
Accounts
Greg Florimo
135
3m
New Players
Deadcowboys1
144
4m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63240
4m
Planning for next season
Jack Gaskell
180
6m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
9m
Dual Reg
financialtim
10
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
PopTart
28
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
Uncle Rico
20
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Big lads mat
22
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
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