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Quote: silver2 "So, somebody please remind me once again, the advantages of brexit are

It's given us so many great names for future generations of art school bands:

Arlene Phillips and the DUP
The European Research Group
The Letwin Amendment
The Cooper-Letwin Motion
The Benn Act
Article 50
The Withdrawal Agreement
Meaningful Vote
Consent Mechanism
No Deal
Operation Yellowhammer
Transition Period
Five Tests
Common Travel Area
Great Repeal Bill
Hard Border
Canada Model
Norway-style Compromise
Single Market

Expect floppy haircuts, vintage sportswear, and a whole load of synthesisers.

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Another day, another Tory lie icon_eek.gif
Despite being in office for the last 10 years, apparently ist's Labours fault that the "targets" (something officially scrapped by the Tories) for NHS waiting times are at their worst level since they took office, despite generally getting worse year on year since they were elected in 2010.

Too busy concentration on what Labour "is going to spend" and now, their representative has "done a Javid" and failed to show for another political TV debate.

They were a disgrace under May but, have actually gone backwards under their blue eyed "saviour" Joke leader and becoming a joke party.
Seems like Boris is joining the Tory "no show" brigade after bottling his Bakery visit as well.

Just as politics gets interesting the Tories seem to have developed a soft yellow underbelly.

The first sign of anything not resembling a cushy camera opportunity and they're gone, all of them.
I thought they were supposed to have some steel and backbone icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Another day, another Tory lie
And the scary thing is they are still going to win. At the same time as we laugh at the Americans for electing TRump we go and elect BoJo.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "Another day, another Tory lie
This doesn't look great but you can hardly blame Boris - he has had three months.

This will take years to come right and probably needs a complete rethink of what we want the NHS to provide and how much money are you prepared to spend to deliver it. You could dump the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.

The key to the impact of this will be individuals experience of dealing with the NHS - if you have never visited A&E then a 6 hour wait will not have the same conceptual impact as if you have been there recently. If you are not waiting for an operation then it will not resonate in the same way as if you are.

Big issue - will hurt the Tories no doubt

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Quote: Sal Paradise "This doesn't look great but you can hardly blame Boris - he has had three months.

This will take years to come right and probably needs a complete rethink of what we want the NHS to provide and how much money are you prepared to spend to deliver it. You could dump the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.

The key to the impact of this will be individuals experience of dealing with the NHS - if you have never visited A&E then a 6 hour wait will not have the same conceptual impact as if you have been there recently. If you are not waiting for an operation then it will not resonate in the same way as if you are.

Big issue - will hurt the Tories no doubt'"


Of course you cant expect anything of Boris, especially in 3 months but, even you must see the pattern that is forming.
Anything that is difficult or, looks like it could be awkward, they are literally running and hiding - can you possibly imagine Thatcher doing that ?

They are so full of poo that their "principles" unravel in seconds. So fearful of confrontation, they now appear to be running scared.

The is still plenty to happen with the Brexit-Con alliance too.

Again, despite all of the denials, it's absolutely clear that their is some serious bargaining going on behind the scenes between the 2? parties and Farage is likely to get the hump.
" weeks ago, he was fielding 600+ candidates, within a fortnight that has halves and the Tories only want him to target 40/50 seats, to give them a "free run" at the rest. Mind you, post election, he could still hold the balance of power and that wont be too pleasant for anyone other than hard line right wing Brexiteers.

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Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel has today stated that the Tories will 'reduce' immigration, but has carefully avoided any targets; which given that they failed year on year to deliver any of their previous 'targets' - is probably a wise move. She simultaneously used some more made-up figures about what migration would be under a Labour government, based on another set of fantasy projections from their busy fake news dept.

It's a woeful campaign by the Tories so far - their promises are being debunked almost before they make them.

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Quote: bren2k "Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel has today stated that the Tories will 'reduce' immigration, but has carefully avoided any targets; which given that they failed year on year to deliver any of their previous 'targets' - is probably a wise move. She simultaneously used some more made-up figures about what migration would be under a Labour government, based on another set of fantasy projections from their busy fake news dept.

It's a woeful campaign by the Tories so far - their promises are being debunked almost before they make them.'"


Bren, if the Tories are blaming Labour for the NHS failure to hit it's targets, surely, the immigration numbers have to also be the fault of Labour icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

Despite calling the Election when they were 12-14 points ahead in the polls, they seem to running an increasingly desperate campaign.
The lies, smears and no shows are happening with increasing regularity and with Brexitcon alliance still in disarray, the election is wide open and it increasingly looks like we're heading for a hung Parliament.
At what point will Boris go and find a ditch or be put in one by his own party, when they realise that he is just as much of a wind bag as May, someone who at least tried to tell the truth.
You are right about how "well" their campaign is going - lets hope it carries on being so "effective".

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Quote: Sal Paradise "

This will take years to come right and probably needs a complete rethink of what we want the NHS to provide and how much money are you prepared to spend to deliver it. You could dump the whole GDP of the UK into the NHS and it still wouldn't be enough.
'"

Well before we a lovely Tory "fundamental rethink", how about we try spending as much as the average other civilised countries spend of their GDP on healthcare and see how it goes. The NHS, even with the excess bureaucracy built into it over years of target setting and rubbish like internal markets, is a remarkably efficient user of what resources we give it.

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Quote: silver2 "So, somebody please remind me once again, the advantages of brexit are
It's an important question. But to understand the answer, you need to understand why the EU was formed, the true ideology behind it, and where it is heading.

The key point for me is: the EU you see today is about as far removed from the ECSC/EEC 60 years ago as the EU wants to be in another 60 years. The goal is a true Federation of Europe, gradual removal of nation states and borders, and absolute centralised power in Brussels. Even in 1957 the ECSC was hailed as the "first step to a European federation" - and if you pay attention to the senior figures throughout the history of this European project, they have always hinted at this. Some have acknowledged it outright.

You people are quick to roll your eyes as if it isn't already happening (Maastricht, Lisbon, the Euro?) - but ask yourself, why have the EU always refused any truly meaningful reform? Simple: because watering down their 'pillars' means the goal cannot be achieved in full.

Since 2016 I've said if the EU had shown a willingness to meaningful reform I would have voted remain. But they have always slapped down any suggestion of true reform.

Despite the stark inevitable problems, they pursue the goal. The Eurozone has caused devastation across the Mediterranean nations, leading to mass unemployment and enormous levels of youth emigration. Indeed, massive movement of people across Europe (mainly from South/East to North/West) has caused economical and societal issues everywhere. You simply cannot throw 28 differing nations together without friction - the swing to the hard right across Europe being the direct consequence.

When confronted with a crisis, the EU invariably flounders and fails. The Balkans, Ukraine, the migrant/refugee crisis, the Eurozone crisis for example. That's before we even look at the creaking political and economic situations in countries such as Italy and France, or the weakening of Germany both economically and politically in the face of Merkel's idiotic migration policy - despite Merkel herself acknowledging almost 10 years ago that "multiculturalism has utterly failed". Something those of us not blinkered by a loony left-wing ideology have known for a long time.

Now - if you like the idea of all of that - great, vote to remain and join that bell-end with his EU hat and loudhailer outside Parliament. If not, you should seriously reconsider your options.

I've also always said we will take a hit after leaving, whatever the circumstances. I'm of the view it's worth it in the long run. The UK's economy has proven itself to be resilient and will succeed out of the EU.

If the EU had never existed and its current structure was proposed today, it would be laughed out of existence.

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Quote: Cronus "It's an important question. But to understand the answer, you need to understand why the EU was formed, the true ideology behind it, and where it is heading.

The key point for me is

As I also mentioned its all about the long term - what will the EU be in 10,20,30 years.

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Quote: bren2k "Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel has today stated that the Tories will 'reduce' immigration, but has carefully avoided any targets; which given that they failed year on year to deliver any of their previous 'targets' - is probably a wise move. She simultaneously used some more made-up figures about what migration would be under a Labour government, based on another set of fantasy projections from their busy fake news dept.

It's a woeful campaign by the Tories so far - their promises are being debunked almost before they make them.'"


Both sides are as bad - the fact you seem incapable of pointing out Labour's lies does your argument no favours. The £500m a day is an out and out lie when you consider on 10% of drugs come from the US.

Labour's issue on the NHS is the shadow minister - Ashworth is weak very weak

Time and again Labour will not commit to an immigration policy - you can't say whether the Tory figures are correct or not because Labour simply will not be honest about their policy. Laura Pidcock when asked by Neil in BBC2 and Robinson on R4 refuses to confirm if the vote at the conference would be in the manifesto - perhaps some honesty from Labour would help?

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Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Well before we a lovely Tory "fundamental rethink", how about we try spending as much as the average other civilised countries spend of their GDP on healthcare and see how it goes. The NHS, even with the excess bureaucracy built into it over years of target setting and rubbish like internal markets, is a remarkably efficient user of what resources we give it.'"


I think most would suggest the waste in the NHS is huge as is the abuse of the service by its customers. Perhaps a reduction of both would help the funds go further. The question is are we all willing to be taxed higher to support it or would we better investing in insurance to get treatment when we want it outside of the service?

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Quote: bren2k "Further lies - world renowned smirker Priti Patel'"

I see your Priti Patel and raise you Emily Thornberry. 8.73291015625:10
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Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
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Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
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Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
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Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
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York 29 695 501 194 32
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Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
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