FORUMS > The Sin Bin > General Election campaign |
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| Seem to recall it was teresa May went into the initial negotiations with the EU with the box full of Tory party majic unicorn demands and red lines.
And her eventual deal agreed would have passed were it not for the ERG Group
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22575.gif "Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Superblue "Seem to recall it was teresa May went into the initial negotiations with the EU with the box full of Tory party majic unicorn demands and red lines.
And her eventual deal agreed would have passed were it not for the ERG Group
But I suspect this is too complicated for some of our Brexiteer friends to get their minds around.
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "The genuinely tragic thing is, so ill-informed are so many of these Brexiteers, that they genuinely believe that our European partners didn't make huge concessions as part of the withdrawal agreement. The EU negotiators got some pushback from the memer states for some of them.
But unless it's all the cake, fully eaten then they won't have any of it, regardless of what was said during the referendum campaign and their complete lack of mandate for any sort of no-deal exit.'"
I would be grateful if you could please inform us of any major concessions that the EU made to us. I am certainly not aware of any. However I am aware the war monger Blair gave up part of Britain’s rebate, this on the promise that the French would sort out and reform the huge sums of money that France receive from the EU. We all know that never happened.
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22575.gif "Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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Quote: Backwoodsman "I would be grateful if you could please inform us of any major concessions that the EU made to us. I am certainly not aware of any. However I am aware the war monger Blair gave up part of Britain’s rebate, this on the promise that the French would sort out and reform the huge sums of money that France receive from the EU. We all know that never happened.'" Well for starters I recommend you stop looking at the EU as a zero sum game where "our" money gets shared out amongst others. The whole point, and it's success is well proven by now, is that this is mutually beneficial, where we all get better off by free-er, barrierless trade and movement. Where the EU funds infrastructure developments in poorer countries which get our goods to market more quickly, where the EU aligns baseline standards so that our goods can sell in other countries without having to re-engineer or re-work them. This is economically beneficial for all of us.
In terms of concessions, it's been well covered but the starting point has to be the EU's red lines, which were to protect the status of EU citizens living in the UK and to protect the interests of the Republic of Ireland, alongside the main practical red line that the single market by definition can't have an open border with a country outside it, hence the backstop. The backstop is the effect of a red line, not the red line itself - and the EU have asked time and time again for Britain to come up with a workable alternative which also tallies with the red lines unilaterally set out by the Conservative government: that we would not be a member of the customs union or the single market - these red lines were not mandated by the referendum result and are the root cause of our current issues because by going for such a hard Conservative Brexit the May government gave away the support they may have otherwise received from Labour in Parliament.
But here's a summary of what the EU conceded -
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKCN1NL1WA
But the simple fact is, if you decide not to be part of the EU, not to be part of the customs union, not to be part of the Single Market and not to pay into the EU budget, then you are starting from a weak position. Conservative politicians have been demanding the benefits from all those things but don't want the mechanics that make them work.
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Quote: Backwoodsman "I would be grateful if you could please inform us of any major concessions that the EU made to us. I am certainly not aware of any. However I am aware the war monger Blair gave up part of Britain’s rebate, this on the promise that the French would sort out and reform the huge sums of money that France receive from the EU. We all know that never happened.'" Well for starters I recommend you stop looking at the EU as a zero sum game where "our" money gets shared out amongst others. The whole point, and it's success is well proven by now, is that this is mutually beneficial, where we all get better off by free-er, barrierless trade and movement. Where the EU funds infrastructure developments in poorer countries which get our goods to market more quickly, where the EU aligns baseline standards so that our goods can sell in other countries without having to re-engineer or re-work them. This is economically beneficial for all of us.
In terms of concessions, it's been well covered but the starting point has to be the EU's red lines, which were to protect the status of EU citizens living in the UK and to protect the interests of the Republic of Ireland, alongside the main practical red line that the single market by definition can't have an open border with a country outside it, hence the backstop. The backstop is the effect of a red line, not the red line itself - and the EU have asked time and time again for Britain to come up with a workable alternative which also tallies with the red lines unilaterally set out by the Conservative government: that we would not be a member of the customs union or the single market - these red lines were not mandated by the referendum result and are the root cause of our current issues because by going for such a hard Conservative Brexit the May government gave away the support they may have otherwise received from Labour in Parliament.
But here's a summary of what the EU conceded -
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKCN1NL1WA
But the simple fact is, if you decide not to be part of the EU, not to be part of the customs union, not to be part of the Single Market and not to pay into the EU budget, then you are starting from a weak position. Conservative politicians have been demanding the benefits from all those things but don't want the mechanics that make them work.
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Getting back on the election trail, that is not actually agreed yet.
Why is Boris allowed to go campaigning in Wakefield before the election is actually agreed ??
Those poor trainees having to stand and listen to his lies and waffle, just so that he could pretend to be the leader with "law & order" credentials for the party that cut 18,000 police and now expects them to stand and cheer for announcing the first steps to replace them, what an utter tool.
It's a shame that his own brother has got fed up of him though.
When your own family tell you that you are making a huge mistake, sometimes it's better to listen to them or, it will end in tears further down the line.
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50722_1319672516.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50722.jpg |
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| But it did bring us the joyful sight of a Yorkshire pensioner politely telling him, "Please leave my town."
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "
Those poor trainees having to stand and listen to his lies and waffle, just so that he could pretend to be the leader with "law & order" credentials for the party that cut 18,000 police and now expects them to stand and cheer for announcing the first steps to replace them, what an utter tool.'"
He becomes more like Trump every day. Mark Burns-Williamson will be seething.
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Boris commenting on David Miliband making his disappointment known about losing out to his brother, Ed, in the Labour leadership race;
"Absolutely not. We don't do things that way, that's a very left-wing thing ... only a socialist could do that to his brother, only a socialist could regard familial ties as being so trivial as to shaft his own brother.
I mean, unbelievable. Only lefties can think like that ... they see people as discrete agents devoid of ties to society or to each other, and that's how Stalin could murder 20 million people".
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
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| Quote: tigertot "Boris commenting on David Miliband making his disappointment known about losing out to his brother, Ed, in the Labour leadership race;
"Absolutely not. We don't do things that way, that's a very left-wing thing ... only a socialist could do that to his brother, only a socialist could regard familial ties as being so trivial as to shaft his own brother.
I mean, unbelievable. Only lefties can think like that ... they see people as discrete agents devoid of ties to society or to each other, and that's how Stalin could murder 20 million people".'"
The difficulty is that when his reputation is as somebody who is dishonest, hypocritical and inconstant, there’s no reputational damage associated with that being further confirmed. Rueful grin, shrug, tell another lie, knowing smirk, rinse and repeat.
His problem is more if/when he’s shown to be incompetent. when he’s trying to get stuff done, being distrusted and it being widely understood that such distrust is justified is a BIG problem. His accusations of Labour cowardice for avoiding an immediate election should hit home, but (many... most?) people can see that they’re right not to trust him.
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Sounds like the Tories are now getting rid of the Speaker, John Bercow.
The steps to the right continue at pace.
At least it should leave plenty of room in the centre left of politics and Labour would be wise to fill that void as quickly as they can.
If they could persuade David Milliband to come back as leader, they may have a chance of success in future.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Sounds like the Tories are now getting rid of the Speaker, John Bercow.
The steps to the right continue at pace.
At least it should leave plenty of room in the centre left of politics and Labour would be wise to fill that void as quickly as they can.
Bercow has broken Parliamentary Protocol, he is a weasel, he is in good company in the HoP.
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22575.gif "Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: IR80 "Bercow has broken Parliamentary Protocol, he is a weasel, he is in good company in the HoP.'"
Can you give us any examples? Because Andrea Leadsom of all people saying something doesn't make it true.
Part of the Speaker's role is to stand up for the supremacy of Parliament over the Executive. The Executive rarely likes this but that's their role.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Can you give us any examples? Because Andrea Leadsom of all people saying something doesn't make it true.
Part of the Speaker's role is to stand up for the supremacy of Parliament over the Executive. The Executive rarely likes this but that's their role.'"
His job is also to be impartial - can anyone really say he has been impartial on Brexit?
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| Quote: The Ghost of '99 "Can you give us any examples? Because Andrea Leadsom of all people saying something doesn't make it true.
Part of the Speaker's role is to stand up for the supremacy of Parliament over the Executive. The Executive rarely likes this but that's their role.'"
Indeed it is, and abercow has played politics with the role, I can't wait for him to be gone, odious little wretch.
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22575.gif "Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs.":22575.gif |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "His job is also to be impartial - can anyone really say he has been impartial on Brexit?'"
God, getting actual fact-based answers out of you Brexiteers is hard. Can you actually summon up some facts rather then just more of your very confidently stated assertions??
I've watched spent plenty of time watching BBC Parliament and seen nothing to suggest to suggest a lack of impartiality other than a bias towards Parliamentary supremacy over the executive. Which is his job, and should be the interest of anyone who cares about process and government accountability.
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