| FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Workfare judged illegal |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "Having read more about this, my understanding is the scheme, as designed, did not correspond with the legislation, as enacted. I suspect the legislation will be redrafted and the scheme reimplemented.
Perhaps the placement was of use to her. She has since got a job at Morrisons.
I don't think it's unreasonable for the long-term unemployed to be required to do something in return for their benefits. What format that should take though is up for debate.'"
I would say doing as she did, gaining experience relevant to the work she wants to do as a career, was of far more use to her than the placement she got. I think her JSA funding that was absolutely fine and it's even better that she has become more self sufficient since by getting a part time job thus not claiming JSA any more.
What is also apparent that forcing her to take the Poundland job was all about getting someone to take a job, any job, without considering if it was going to give her relevant experience for the career she is aiming for. |
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds "Please enlighten us all what you would do for under £80 a week?
I get the impression that you want the unemployed to be overworked for as little money as possible.'"
As she is 24 it was £56.25, not the £71 you get if you are over 24. |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "In my experience, people who have a history of running to the employment tribunal quickly get blacklisted in the industry they work.
This is not quite the same, but I think you can see the point I am trying to make.'"
She hasn't done that though and I fail to see how any intelligent employer would mistake one for the other.
I do see the point you're trying to make, but I don't agree with it. |
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| Quote: DaveO "As she is 24 it was £56.25, not the £71 you get if you are over 24.'"
I remember trying to get by on £56.25 a week, it was depressing and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I've since been put on DLA and get a higher rate of JSA because of my disability.
Whilst I'm grateful for this financial assistance, money isn't the answer to everything and I'm sure I'd be better off on less money in a career that I like. Of course as I progress in a career, money would go up as it does but as seen with the Cait Reilly case, the main ministers (not all) put in charge of helping the unemployed couldn't care less about individual needs and would rather shove everyone into working at Poundland. It's easier to get people working in Poundland than it is getting people to work in a job that suits their ability. Work Program providers have long term relationships with the likes of Poundland and if you want help with anything beyond Poundland then you have to do it by yourself as I've found out.. |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "In my experience, people who have a history of running to the employment tribunal quickly get blacklisted in the industry they work.
This is not quite the same, but I think you can see the point I am trying to make.'"
Absolutely. She should have bent over and allowed herself to be kicked, while at the same time tugging the forelock. |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "Perhaps the placement was of use to her. She has since got a job at Morrisons.'"
Kids go straight from school with no retail experience to work in supermarkets.
This whole 'you need experience to work in menial jobs' line is wrong and only used to exploit the vulnerable. |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "This one is not done and dusted. There is still the possibility of an appeal to the Supreme Court. Curious - should said girl lose in Supreme Court who will cover the Government's legal costs?
That regardless, this whole episode has probably done her career prospects no good. She will now be listed as a potential trouble causer who employers will probably choose to avoid.
Still, so long as Phil Shiner and his mates have made a few quid out of it job's a good 'un.'"
You really are a tit, aren't you. |
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| Quote: Kosh "You really are a tit, aren't you.'"
I have never understood how personal abuse advances any sort of argument, either on an internet forum or in real life. The irony is it actually makes the 'abuser' look like the tit. |
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| Quote: Mintball "Unfortunately, there are not a huge number of jobs around at present.
The only thing that my niece can get at present is part-time in an independent jewellery shop in Leeds – after becoming the first of our immediate family to get a degree.
In the case of this young woman, she has a geology degree and had organised work experience for herself, in a local museum. In other words, something that was relevant to her degree and her career hopes. That was stopped when she was told that she had to do WorkFare in Poundland. In other words, work experience had nothing to do with anything.
Her subsequent work for Morrisons illustrates two things
Interesting that Mintball - I started a thread on here looking for a graduate to work full time within one of the departments I manage at work, I got two people - thats all!! One wasn't interested in the end, Barry got the job and used the experience we offered to get another job doing what he qualified at uni to do.
There is work out there sometimes I wonder if young people especially graduates are really prepared to get their hands dirty and take a chance and back themselves to make things happen.
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| Quote: Big Graeme "Which is the major issue with taking the low paid out of tax all together, total disenfranchiseation of a whole section of society.
Sending them out to work for free isn't going to solve that.'"
Two points - not sure how not paying tax disenfranchises you? secondly they are not doing it for free, they are getting JSA - I think if they are required to work they should get the minimum wage but then I suppose there has to be an incentive to employers to participate. |
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| Quote: Damo-Leeds "If you put it that way then no you don't need a university education to do the tasks above. However customers visiting the museum will at least expect that the staff can engage in a intelligent conversation reguarding the content in the museum.
A couple of months ago I went to a local exhibition and one of the highlights was talking to the site manager who went through with me the history of sunny bank mills in Farsley. Yes whenever he went to university or not is irrelevant but these types of jobs can't just go to anybody unlike supermarket jobs. They is a difference.'"
You don't need to have a degree to give a few pointers to visitors or to be able express yourself in a coherent way. You are really stretching a point Damo. If you said she wants to a curator or restorer different matter but there is no indication anywhere that to be the case. |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Interesting that Mintball - I started a thread on here looking for a graduate to work full time within one of the departments I manage at work, I got two people - thats all!! One wasn't interested in the end, Barry got the job and used the experience we offered to get another job doing what he qualified at uni to do.
There is work out there sometimes I wonder if young people especially graduates are really prepared to get their hands dirty and take a chance and back themselves to make things happen.'"
As has been mentioned (IIRC) there is also a terror that, if you're a graduate and take a 'lowly' job, it will actually look bad on your CV.
But I'm not going to claim that my niece's experience is the whole story. But it is a real example of what young people are facing. She certainly is frustrated that she cannot get anything more (and is looking – and has managed to get one interview in 18 months). |
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Interesting quotation at the end of this article:
www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... d-workfare
"You expect to come out of uni and be employable."
This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job. They see low paid or menial work as beneath them.
People need to realise that university is not a guaranteed ticket to well paid gainful emploment. Higher Education Statistics Agency have revealed 28% of 2006 graduates were not in full-time employment 3 years later. Of those who were, only 16% of men were earning over £20,000 with the figure being 29% for women.
Bottom line is she is employable. There are not enough 'graduate' jobs to support 50% of our population going to university.
The brightest and best graduates will, generally, find decent employment. I seem to recall reading that Cait had applied for around 200 jobs and been unsuccessful in each application. Read into this what you will.
As with everyone else in society, she may have to spend a few years doing something she doesn't want to do before landing her dream job. |
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Interesting quotation at the end of this article:
www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/ ... d-workfare
"You expect to come out of uni and be employable."
This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job. They see low paid or menial work as beneath them.
People need to realise that university is not a guaranteed ticket to well paid gainful emploment. Higher Education Statistics Agency have revealed 28% of 2006 graduates were not in full-time employment 3 years later. Of those who were, only 16% of men were earning over £20,000 with the figure being 29% for women.
Bottom line is she is employable. There are not enough 'graduate' jobs to support 50% of our population going to university.
The brightest and best graduates will, generally, find decent employment. I seem to recall reading that Cait had applied for around 200 jobs and been unsuccessful in each application. Read into this what you will.
As with everyone else in society, she may have to spend a few years doing something she doesn't want to do before landing her dream job. | |
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| Quote: The Video Ref "
"You expect to come out of uni and be employable."
This is part of the problem. University graduates often feel they have some 'right' to a good job.'"
There's quite a bit of ground between those two statements, yes they should expect to be employable, that is the major reason they are at Uni in the first place, I'm not sure the average student feels they have a right or entitlement to a good job, I think they understand that they start quite low down on a career path and have to put the effort in to move along that path, I think the right and entitlement attitude comes from students at the better universities.
Quote: The Video Ref "They see low paid or menial work as beneath them.'"
I work between two universities, not something I see to be honest, in fact I see plenty of students working in the service industries that are renown for low pay. |
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| Quote: Mintball "As has been mentioned (IIRC) there is also a terror that, if you're a graduate and take a 'lowly' job, it will actually look bad on your CV.
But I'm not going to claim that my niece's experience is the whole story. But it is a real example of what young people are facing. She certainly is frustrated that she cannot get anything more (and is looking – and has managed to get one interview in 18 months).'"
Is having a lowly job better than having no job? |
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