Why would they remain here and be at a distinct financial disadvantage to their EU competitors?

These sorts of arguments are hollow, being part of an economic free trade zone does not require subsidising a wider political project, they really are not mutually inclusive. The whole GATT and WTO set-up has been geared towards freer global trade, and that is not dependent on a political project that covers part of Europe. If the UK were no longer to provide it's not insignificant net subsidy to the EU political project (and along with Germany we are the only ones who have always been net contributors) it might make plenty of rent-seeking interests unhappy for quite obvious reasons, but it doesn't change economic reality of international trade agreements. We do lots of business with the Eurozone, from outside of the Eurozone, and it's a two way thing, they do same with us, there's no reason to think they would try to be punative, or even that it would be in their wider economic interests to be punative, if we decided we don't really want to shovel cash into the gobs of French farmers any longer. These threats just don't really hold up to reality of international political economy. Not wanting to be part of a political project is not the same as wishing to be isolated on international trade.

And if the Euro ends up being a financial basket case which is still a possiblity no matter what France and Germany say?
How long will that mess take to sort out and what will be left when it is?
This isn't the end of this I think it is only the begining and no one knows what the end game will be.
That was why I said 'You guess'.

What are the disadvantages of being in a free trade agreement?

Quote: cod'ead "What makes you think they'd want us? They too will have seen Cameron's breast-beating, do you honestly believe they'd be happy with us trying to take our "rightful" seat at the head of the table?'" We founded it to start with, alongside them, when France stopped us joining the EEC. Plus, according to this, we're about their 5th largest destination for exports: www.ssb.no/muh_en/tab-2011-11-15-03-en.html As for breast-beating: I wish it'd happen years ago.

Quote: cod'ead "What makes you think they'd want us? They too will have seen Cameron's breast-beating, do you honestly believe they'd be happy with us trying to take our "rightful" seat at the head of the table?'" We founded it to start with, alongside them, when France stopped us joining the EEC. Plus, according to this, we're about their 5th largest destination for exports: www.ssb.no/muh_en/tab-2011-11-15-03-en.html As for breast-beating: I wish it'd happen years ago.

If he calls an election he's gone and I hope that it happens. He should resign anyway.

There was no risk to UK sovereignty since the proposals for greater control from Brussels over budgets were to Eurozone countries only. The transaction tax was a seperate issue too.
The only issue, apparently, was certain restrictions that would be placed on financial industries as the view was that lax regulation was at least partly to blame for the financial crash.
Now Cameron might well be right to oppose those restrictions due to the large size of the UK financial sector, however I don't think it was necessary to veto the entire treaty. If a bit of effort had been put into negotiating with other European countries instead of slagging them off like a patronising parent for the last 18 months then I'm fairly sure that some kind of equitable agreement could have been reached.

But since Cameron cant bring himself to talk to the Europeans as equals then this situation was inevitable.

But that is the thing he didn't veto it (I am wrong on that point) as it is happening anyway.
All he did was say 'That isn't for us old chap'.

Just on cars, Germany's biggest export market is the UK. If I recall they will also earn bigger profits here on account of car margins for manufacturers here being higher in rip off Britain.

We have the power to totally destabilise Germany and thereby the whole EZ if they want to get silly with us. The Euro will not survive anyway, IMO. Indeed, I believe the drag on Germany will be so great over time that they will withdraw when the time is right for them.

Very true.
The fact that it has now become clear that we are stuck in this rut for this full term of his office pretty much confirms a Labour win in 2014.

TBH everytime they say 'We are just clearing up the mess' the amount who will vote for the just reduces, as most are sick of that excuse now.

I agree with you, can't see the Euro surviving as it is. They should have just started with Germany, Finland, Austria, the Netherlands, and France: stable economies with fairly aligned needs. Then the rest could have joined as and when ready.

All they needed to do was give up the opt-outs the UK needed, as it is that's all that has really happened anyway.

Indeed
If 'Dave' hadn't spent ages laying into the Euro zone so much so that eventually the French leader (Can't spell is name) told him to shut it he may have got the consessions he wanted but as such there was no way he was ever gunna give Cameron what he wanted after his recent comments.
I still think not agreeing was the correct decision mind.

Doubt it to be honest. It'd have been the same result regardless. After all, Sarkozy has been preening over the fact that there will be no referenda as a result. Or so he thinks...

I'm not so certain as it isn't often that a country's leader has a clear hissy fit towards another like Sarkozy(Thanks) did.