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[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp] "...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg



Quote: vbfg "Reality needs to stop scaremongering and listen to ordinary people like me.'"


I really, really want to link to the Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight scene, on a popular video-sharing platform. That, right there, is the current Brexit response to having our legs and arms cut off!

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "This is true, and Cameron will be damned by the history books as a result. Unfortunately, we're all being damned by economics right now. Just finished day 2 of post-vote trading, and it's carnage on the market for British firms. The only reason today's FTSE 250 drop isn't a single-day record is that we already had the single-day record on Friday. I don't know what the picture's like up North, but I've already heard from two mates down here that their companies have had orders cancelled. And we haven't even invoked Article 50 yet. You know all those "experts" that utter lover Gove rubbished? Well, it turns out there was a reason they're called "experts". These aren't bumps in the road, so much as a gaping crevasse. My biggest fear is that the downgrades we've now had from those rogues and charlatans at the credit ratings agencies will cause the cost of borrowing to rise. Given our entire "recovery" since 2008 has been based on re-inflating the housing bubble and cheap credit, if interest rates have to rise, the pain will be intense.

Hold on to your hats. This will get worse.'"


These lost orders being from Europe I assume ? , in what industry ?

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "Hold on to your hats. This will get worse.'"
I work for a nationwide retailer (500 convenience stores across the country). Like for likes were -10% Friday/Saturday/Sunday. If we're anything like the rest of the high street, and I can't see why we shouldn't be, the country is in recession already, it just won't know it until it meets the official definition.

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[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp] "...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg



Quote: GUBRATS "These lost orders being from Europe I assume ? , in what industry ?'"


Not necessarily from Europe. British firms are also cancelling orders because they're expecting a big downturn, and so are hoarding cash. Anyway, one firm was logistics, the other in construction. On a separate note, my estate agent issued a profit warning, because they know the London housing market is due a collapse now the vote is Brexit. Negative equity all round. Cheers Nigel.

It's happening fast. That's just one man's anecdote, of course, but I'd be very surprised if I was the only one who was hearing of these experiences already, given the carnage in the financial markets. And we're only two trading days in, like I said.

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "Not necessarily from Europe. British firms are also cancelling orders because they're expecting a big downturn, and so are hoarding cash. Anyway, one firm was logistics, the other in construction. On a separate note, my estate agent issued a profit warning, because they know the London housing market is due a collapse now the vote is Brexit. Negative equity all round. Cheers Nigel.

It's happening fast. That's just one man's anecdote, of course, but I'd be very surprised if I was the only one who was hearing of these experiences already, given the carnage in the financial markets. And we're only two trading days in, like I said.'"


How does your estate agent ' know ' the market is due a collapse ?

And why issue a warning ?

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Quote: crumpledshorts "We have a minimum age to vote, the referendum shows we should also have a maximum. Nobody under 50 who works voted to leave. Those wanting a free ride and to bitch about "the geeeermans" did.

Disgusted in England'"


I guess that's sarcasm? If not, what a load of rubbish.

I am sick of BBC / Guardian / etc suggesting all Leave votes were thick, poor, Northerners. They conveniently ignore all the well off folk who did. People for example in the affluent Home Counties who work in London and often run or own businesses there.

Older people have more experience and so their votes should count double if you want to be silly.

Already Australia and New Zealand have said they want to sign a free trade agreement with UK. If and when India and China do, then you will realise how stupid being tied to EU was.

I do not consider my family very stupid and the 4 of us who voted all voted leave. One campaigned for it. He is in his 20's and works. My daughter is a student (not one of thickos who are moaning) and she did. Between the two kids they have 24 grade A / A* GCSE, a hatful of A levels, the eldest has two degrees from a decent university (including a first), has only been working a few years and earns more than twice the national average. Even the wife and I have degrees from decent universities. The kids are not racists either - one has a Polish girlfriend, the other a Chinese boyfriend. How do you explain all that if your proposition was at all serious?

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[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp] "...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg



Quote: GUBRATS "How does your estate agent ' know ' the market is due a collapse ?

And why issue a warning ?'"


Mate, you'd have to ask Foxtons for why they did - I don't work for them - but that's what they did.

Talking to their local branch manager, his line was that the London market (at the top end), has been largely driven by foreign buyers - Chinese, Arab, Russian money, buying London property as an investment, not to live in. Basically, when interest rates are nearly zero, and dividends are low, London property was both incredibly safe (unlike shares, it won't go down), and also promised high yields of up to 10% a year. It's an odd concept, but London housing was one of the country's most valuable exports in terms of earing foreign currency. Funny old world we live in.

These buyers were pulling out of contracts as early as March when the referendum came into view. If remain, the money would start to come back in, and that then drives the rest of the market. But Brexit, and the devaluation of the pound, means that not only might you take a very quick hit on the value of your investment as soon as you convert it to pounds, but there's a good chance the yields are over, as the market prices will stick or fall once interest rates rise (as now seems almost inevitable).

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "Mate, you'd have to ask Foxtons for why they did - I don't work for them - but that's what they did.

Talking to their local branch manager, his line was that the London market (at the top end), has been largely driven by foreign buyers - Chinese, Arab, Russian money, buying London property as an investment, not to live in. Basically, when interest rates are nearly zero, and dividends are low, London property was both incredibly safe (unlike shares, it won't go down), and also promised high yields of up to 10% a year. It's an odd concept, but London housing was one of the country's most valuable exports in terms of earing foreign currency. Funny old world we live in.

These buyers were pulling out of contracts as early as March when the referendum came into view. If remain, the money would start to come back in, and that then drives the rest of the market. But Brexit, and the devaluation of the pound, means that not only might you take a very quick hit on the value of your investment as soon as you convert it to pounds, but there's a good chance the yields are over, as the market prices will stick or fall once interest rates rise (as now seems almost inevitable).'"


My heart bleeds for them , so we are talking about the slimeballs of the slimeball industry having to drink a slightly less expensive Champagne and hang onto their Porsches a year longer

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "I don't know what the picture's like up North'"


Still feeling the fallout from 2008 in some areas.

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[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp] "...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg



Quote: King Street Cat "Still feeling the fallout from 2008 in some areas.'"


Yes. Which makes it all the more remarkable that plenty of folks seem to have decided that wasn't hard enough, so voted for an even bigger financial disaster.

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Quote: King Street Cat "I don't get all the vitriol aimed at the voters. If you're looking for someone to blame, blame Cameron for being so out of touch and arrogant that he thought the remain outcome was a guaranteed certainty. The anger of the nation has been brewing for an age and the EU referendum was the perfect way to vent it. Anyone with half a clue could see a vote to leave coming a mile off.'"



Yep but we could take it back much further than Dave, don't forget Tony & his cronies.

For me, it's not the fact he thought we'd stay in the E.U. but that he even offered the country a referendum in the first place.

I know he feared mass defections to UKIP, but a referendum jeez - asked the Germans how that one went.

On a personal level I'm gutted because it hampers my plan to retire to Europe, but when I see the disenfranchised believing there's going to be a golden dawn, where all this spare cash the country is saving in E.U. subs will be coming back to a town near you - sigh.

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Quote: Roy Haggerty "Mate, you'd have to ask Foxtons for why they did - I don't work for them - but that's what they did.
'"


So they've deliberately ' talked down ' their own future performance ? , sounds to me like a plan to make more money from nervous sellers , I'd trust an estate agent as much as a double glazing salesman and that's been my industry for nearly 30 years

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Quote: King Street Cat "Still feeling the fallout from 2008 in some areas.'"


How that one wasn't predicted when our banks were giving out 105% mortgages

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[img:2penstlp]http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5994/saints7sk.gif[/img:2penstlp] "...the biggest boor, the most opinionated pompous bigot that frequents these boards and he is NOT to be taken at all seriously. ":187.jpg



Quote: GUBRATS "My heart bleeds for them , so we are talking about the slimeballs of the slimeball industry having to drink a slightly less expensive Champagne and hang onto their Porsches a year longer'"


No. We're talking about billions of pounds worth of foreign investment entering the country - essentially exports. And that drives the building trade in London, from housebuilding to kitchen fitting, plumbers and electricians. Also the property trade, which means not just estate agents but solicitors and surveyors, removals firms and sign-erectors. And of course all their suppliers and sub-contractors.

Cash doesn't just move from one rich guy to another. It circulates. It might not circulate as much as we'd like, and the Government could certainly do more to make it circulate further (like taxing the wealthy more), but whether you like it or not, those rich foreigners buying London property drove billions of pounds of economic activity. That's essentially what's happening now with the market crash - a huge volume of capital is fleeing the active economy either overseas, or into non-productive assets like Gold. In fact, yesterday I read it was the largest volume of capital flight in UK history, although I can't find the link right now, so don't take my word for it. So it's not getting spent. And when it doesn't get spent, all those people involved in all those trades, most of whom are just ordinary folks like you and me, don't get paid.

The rich will be fine. They've ways of protecting their wealth and shifting it overseas to safety. And if they do take a hit, they can afford it. But when your local estate agent lays off that 19 year-old kid they'd just taken on because the market has dried up, that's the real impact.

I'm sure Boris will be along in a minute to say that it's just "bumps in the road", or "teething issues". Or maybe Farage will pop along to say that the recession we're about to enter will be worth it.

It wasn't Project fear. It was Project Reality. It bites.

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