 |
| 
 |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 15521 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Lebron James"Don’t blame racist and xenophobic brexiteers. Blame the Tory party. I live in a 20k population town and in a 7 mile radius the tories have closed 5 hospitals in the past 4 years so no wonder A&Es are at breaking point. The same people who voted Tory (so 99% of the sin bin) will be the at the top of queue to complain about the NHS. (Pro tip - if you voted Tory you have no right to complain)
Regards
King James'"
Absolutely correct - the NHS is being systematically defunded, in preparation for privatisation; soon it will be in the hands of Branson and various other private providers, shortly thereafter to be funded by insurance, US style.
Meanwhile, the woman hotly tipped to become the new Health Secretary - Ann Milton - appears to have all the right qualifications; but would you adam and eve it, her husband just happens to be a Director of Virgin Care, who are hoovering up great swathes of the NHS, and suing when they don't get their way... | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"Absolutely correct - the NHS is being systematically defunded, in preparation for privatisation; soon it will be in the hands of Branson and various other private providers, shortly thereafter to be funded by insurance, US style.
Meanwhile, the woman hotly tipped to become the new Health Secretary - Ann Milton - appears to have all the right qualifications; but would you adam and eve it, her husband just happens to be a Director of Virgin Care, who are hoovering up great swathes of the NHS, and suing when they don't get their way...'"
Talk about all having their snouts in the same trough.
Grabbing self serving b'stards, or corporate puppets, the lot of them and many of the Labour & SNP mob fall into the same category.
Just about managing (to breathe) should be the Tory mantra and they will probably start charging for fresh air at some point. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4650 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
During a discussion I had in which the group was evenly split 50/50 with those who voted leave and those who voted remain, we only had one outstanding question... At what point will the riots start?
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 17168 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
My daughter had a major operation before xmas. The skill & dedication of the staff is humbling, but the delays in responding to the unplanned & being asked to vacate her bed for the next patient & wait in the family room for medication was shocking. I have no doubt now that it is a sinister, ideologically driven, deliberate policy of destroying all public services so they can be handed to their friends.
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1911 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
All major parties should shoulder the blame for the state of the nhs. Unless things change dramatically the nhs will stagger on steadily decreasing in efficiency. If we increased the funding on a massive scale it’s highly unlikely things would change.
Mainly because the nhs is dogged by restrictive practices. Which the Labour Party are more than happy to accommodate. If you recall giving the general practitioners a massive pay rise and agreeing to the scrapping of Saturday working. It’s no wonder casualty departments are packed at weekends. The labour parties criticism of the tories conveniently forgets the scandal of the Mid Staffordshire hospital Scandal, patients dying from lack of care, nurses falsifying records etc etc.
To make matters worse due to an influx of people from Europe we have seen a huge increase in patient numbers. None of these have payed much into the system but are receiving the full benefits.
| | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Backwoodsman"
To make matters worse due to an influx of people from Europe we have seen a huge increase in patient numbers. None of these have payed much into the system but are receiving the full benefits.'"
Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?
It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint.
The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="wrencat1873"Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?'"
What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant. 
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html £118 billion 1995-2011[/url as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
Quote It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint. The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population...'"
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing. 
Quote ...and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts
'"
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 15521 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cronus"Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is<snip>'"
It absolutely is - in a tiny, almost statistically insignificant way - as explained [url=https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/here.[/url
The ageing population is a much bigger factor - and the NHS gets a double blow in that regard, because Social Care services have been slashed to the bone, meaning that elderly people don't get the care they need in their own homes to prevent hospital admissions - and when they do get admitted, the services to support them in the community aren't there, so they can't be discharged. The announcement that Jeremy Hunt will retain Health and also pick up Social Care does not give me any comfort that things will improve on that front any time soon.
You're dead right about non EU migration too - we absolutely did have the ability to control that, and successive governments, including one Mrs T May as longstanding Home Secretary, utterly failed to do so. That said, we also had an ability to control EU migration, despite the scare tactics used by the Leave campaign, but didn't do that either. So I agree that the rise of right wing, xenophobic rhetoric that people have got behind, was enabled by a series of failures on both sides of the political spectrum - and this is where we've ended up. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4650 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"The ageing population is a much bigger factor'"
And it raises some serious moral dilemmas. Is the population living longer purely through healthier lifestyles, or are the unhealthy living longer via expensive medicine, treatment and care? Do we keep relying on immigration to solve the problem of caring for the ageing population, knowing too that they will expand their families, and in turn, get old and require care themselves?
It would also be worth looking at the infant mortality rate. The infant mortality rate has reduced by over 10 times since Victorian times. I seem to remember reading somewhere that around half of children born in Victorian times didn't make it to their 1st birthday. The problems encountered then haven't gone away entirely, it's just that we now have a better ability to treat and care for, or in the recent Charlie Gard case, prolong the suffering of the ones that didn't used to make it.
By 2035 the UK population is estimated to be around 73.2 million with just over two-thirds of the projected increase from 2010 to 2035 either directly or indirectly due to migration. If the population explosion carries on at this rate, it won't just be healthcare that will be in crisis. Housing, infrastructure, travel, employment will too take centre stage. Sooner or later there are going to be some very uncomfortable questions, and I don't trust anyone currently in power to provide an answer. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cronus"What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant.
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/european-immigrants-contribute-5bn-to-uk-economy-but-non-eu-migrants-cost-118bn-9840170.html£118 billion 1995-2011[/url as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing.
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...
'"
Thanks for the lecture, always much appreciated.
The lack of sufficient funding for a growing and more importantly ageing population should not just be blamed on immigration, which the poster that I replied to actually inferred, the problems are far deeper and you know this.
THe % increase in NHS spending barely cover inflation and this is without the other many and varied reasons why the service needs more funds.
The elephant in the room is the need to address just what the NHS should be used for and more importantly how the hell to cope with the increasing demands put on the service by an ever more "needy" ageing population.
But, we'll ignore that and just blame immigration.
It's quite laughable that non EU immigration, which we "control" was higher in the last 12 months than EU immigration.
Perhaps when we have "full control" this figure may even grow ?? | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 17168 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cronus"
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing. '"
To state the strain on the health service is down to immigration just shows your xenophobia. A far bigger strain is due to the lifestyles of the native population. Crap food, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, lack of exercise, over work, stress.
My recent experiences of hospitals is I am struggling to remember one overseas patient, unless you are classing second & third generation immigrants. Numerous overseas nurses, doctors & specialists committed to caring though.
I know a fair number of people who work in health & social services. None of them bemoan immigration.
The liberals aren't in charge. Where've you been? | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tigertot"To state the strain on the health service is down to immigration just shows your xenophobia. A far bigger strain is due to the lifestyles of the native population. Crap food, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, lack of exercise, over work, stress.
My recent experiences of hospitals is I am struggling to remember one overseas patient, unless you are classing second & third generation immigrants. Numerous overseas nurses, doctors & specialists committed to caring though.
I know a fair number of people who work in health & social services. None of them bemoan immigration.
The liberals aren't in charge. Where've you been?'"
Reading not your strong point? I said it's a factor. Which it is. Or do you think 335,000 extra people each year make absolutely zero demands on the NHS? 
BTW did you ask everyone in those waiting rooms their origins? No, didn't think so. In fact, you're making it up, aren't you. Just as you're lying about your ailing memory of overseas patients.
I could tell you my experience of EVERY NHS waiting room I've been in containing a significant proportion of foreign-speakers. Hospitals, GPs and drop-in centres. Every single one. I don't know where you live (cloud cuckoo land?), but I could take you to Fairfield Hospital, Rochdale Infirmary, North Manchester Hospital, Trafford Hospital, Royal Oldham, Royal Bolton, and you would witness this at any given time. You can deny this all you like but just pause for a moment and think about the demographics of those areas. First, second or third generation I don't know (or care).
Any NHS workers you know probably don't feel comfortable telling you how they feel as you'll probably accuse them of lying and go into some blinkered leftist rant.
Xenophobic? I've lived in Europe for several years, I'm half non-British European and I'm surrounded by Europeans at work, mainly Germans a but a real broth of nationalities. Another typical loony trait - throw insults at anyone who simply understands the numbers coming in are unsustainable. Because that's all it is - a numbers game. Your insults don't wash with me sonny jim. Go back to your British-only waiting room.  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"It absolutely is - in a tiny, almost statistically insignificant way - as explained [url=https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/here.[/url'"
I'm not talking about contribution in financial terms (which is debatable) - but rather the impact on resources. If 335,000 immigrants arrive in any given year, their contributions aren't in the coffers for some time and more importantly given we don't know how many might arrive, there is no increase in facilities to account for the demands they place on the system. Same goes for schools, housing, etc. All are feeling the squeeze.
Quote The ageing population is a much bigger factor - and the NHS gets a double blow in that regard, because Social Care services have been slashed to the bone, meaning that elderly people don't get the care they need in their own homes to prevent hospital admissions - and when they do get admitted, the services to support them in the community aren't there, so they can't be discharged. The announcement that Jeremy Hunt will retain Health and also pick up Social Care does not give me any comfort that things will improve on that front any time soon.'"
Agree with all of the above. Vast changes are needed sooner rather than later, changes which will have to cost us all much more.
Quote You're dead right about non EU migration too - we absolutely did have the ability to control that, and successive governments, including one Mrs T May as longstanding Home Secretary, utterly failed to do so. That said, we also had an ability to control EU migration, despite the scare tactics used by the Leave campaign, but didn't do that either. So I agree that the rise of right wing, xenophobic rhetoric that people have got behind, was enabled by a series of failures on both sides of the political spectrum - and this is where we've ended up.'"
Yes, we could have put temporary transitional controls on EU migration in 2004 - but a Mr Anthony Charles Lynton Blair chose not to, for political and ideological reasons. The thing is, you don't get a second opportunity whenever you feel like it so saying we could still have limited immigration is incorrect - something backed up by the EU itself, who have repeatedly stated freedom of movement is entirely non-negotiable. One of the reasons I voted leave. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="wrencat1873"Thanks for the lecture, always much appreciated.
The lack of sufficient funding for a growing and more importantly ageing population should not just be blamed on immigration, which the poster that I replied to actually inferred, the problems are far deeper and you know this.
THe % increase in NHS spending barely cover inflation and this is without the other many and varied reasons why the service needs more funds.
The elephant in the room is the need to address just what the NHS should be used for and more importantly how the hell to cope with the increasing demands put on the service by an ever more "needy" ageing population.
But, we'll ignore that and just blame immigration.
It's quite laughable that non EU immigration, which we "control" was higher in the last 12 months than EU immigration.
Perhaps when we have "full control" this figure may even grow ??'"
Another one who can't read. Show me where I 'just' blamed immigration. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cronus"Another one who can't read. Show me where I 'just' blamed immigration.'"
Ditto, you didn't but, the poster that I replied to, which provoked you to jump right onto your high horse did.
Perhaps you should start again  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4650 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Captain | 1401 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2017 | 8 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2018 | Apr 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
with ALL the clowns in politics nowadays, we can sell Wesminter for flats and build a 3 ring circus on wasteland somwhere, the moon looks a good option! |
|
with ALL the clowns in politics nowadays, we can sell Wesminter for flats and build a 3 ring circus on wasteland somwhere, the moon looks a good option! | |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 15521 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Since de facto PM Farage has announced it, I expect it to become Government policy very soon.
|
|
Since de facto PM Farage has announced it, I expect it to become Government policy very soon.
| |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 17168 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
There's a certain irony in one-trick Farage stating; “What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever-ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process".
|
|
There's a certain irony in one-trick Farage stating; “What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever-ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process".
| |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
You clearly dont remember this 
wrencat1873 wrote:
Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?
What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant.
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of £118 billion 1995-2011 as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint. The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population...
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing.
...and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...
|
|
You clearly dont remember this
wrencat1873 wrote:
Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?
What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant.
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of £118 billion 1995-2011 as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint. The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population...
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing.
...and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...
| |
|
| | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 7152 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="wrencat1873"You clearly dont remember this
'"
Go home wrencat, you're drunk.  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 17993 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Cronus"Go home wrencat, you're drunk.
'"
Cant wait till duty free comes back, one of the few positives of brexit  | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 14395 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| May 2024 | May 2022 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Cronus"Yes, we could have put temporary transitional controls on EU migration in 2004 - but a Mr Anthony Charles Lynton Blair chose not to, for political and ideological reasons. The thing is, you don't get a second opportunity whenever you feel like it so saying we could still have limited immigration is incorrect - something backed up by the EU itself, who have repeatedly stated freedom of movement is entirely non-negotiable. One of the reasons I voted leave.'"
Freedom of movement does not give anyone the right to remain here if they are a burden on the State. You have not been able to pitch up here and remain be a burden on the state since 2006 when The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 came into force in UK law. That basically says you either have a job or can prove you won't be a burden by having things like your own comprehensive health insurance. EU migrants also can't claim unemployment benefit for three months and if they don't have a job after six months they can be deported. Other EU countries limit full access to benefits until after you have paid into the system for a number of years (five in Germany). In Germany there was a case where someone had lived there for 3 years supporting themselves but then tried to claim child support on the birth of their first child but was denied it by the ECJ because they had never worked so never paid into the system. So unless you simply don't like foreigners your concerns over Freedom of Movement were ill founded and no basis for a vote to leave. | | | |
| |
All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.
Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.
RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.
Copyright 1999 - 2025 RLFANS.COM
You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.
Please Support RLFANS.COM
|
|
| POSTS | ONLINE | REGISTRATIONS | RECORD |
|---|
| 19.67M | 312 | 80,281 | 14,103 |
| LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
|
|
