FORUMS > The Sin Bin > Brexit Anyone ? (part 3) |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "This is one of the big failures with remainers, that they dismiss anybody who voted leave as uneducated, uninformed and that they all believed it would be as dreamy as some Brexiteers made out.
Reality is most will have know that leaving wouldn’t have been as “utopian” as politicians made out when campaigning. Considering a decent percent of leave votes were older people, they’ve lived long enough to experience and know what politicians claim in campaigns doesn’t equate to coming true, so it’s just ridiculous and sounds like pure bitterness when remainers try and stereotype leave voters as all the same and in a derogatory manner.'"
Are you saying that Boris, Farage & Co told everyone that they would be financially worse off ?? Really ??
The promise was to take back control, and lead the UK to a brighter, more prosperous future.
Please explain when and how this will happen following Brexit.
I'm not sure that I stereotyped leavers at all
As for politicians not telling the truth, you may be right BUT, on this issue, with Brexit not being along party lines, who will be accountable IF it all goes horribly wrong ??
Only Farage & Co were "selling a dream", sadly, that's all it is and reality is somewhat different and as for being bitter, I dont think so, but, I'll give you anger.
I'm not sure how many people would be happy about being made deliberately poorer, I certainly not.
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| Surprised May has not had a visit from the Tory Grandee's or Men in Suits yet! Unusual for them to hang on to a lame duck!
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"The Golden Generation finally has its Golden Fleece! They have Wembley Cup Final winners medals to add to their collection."
23/08/2014: |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "Are you saying that Boris, Farage & Co told everyone that they would be financially worse off ?? Really ??.'"
No I’m not saying that....as proven by the fact that i DIDN’T say it.
It’s just the ridiculous idea that ALL leave voters thought they’d get exactly what was claimed by certain politicians when realistically most know that what politicians claim never comes true 100%
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| Quote: Cronus "Well that wraps it up then. Because the polls are 100% reliable as we've seen repeatedly in recent years.
And why do people try to be smart s without reading everything first?
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: ThePrinter "No I’m not saying that....as proven by the fact that i DIDN’T say it.
It’s just the ridiculous idea that ALL leave voters thought they’d get exactly what was claimed by certain politicians when realistically most know that what politicians claim never comes true 100%'"
You are being more than slightly ridiculous.
Of course not ALL leave voters thought that they'd get exactly what was claimed, in fact, I'd suggest that NONE of them did.
However, what effect do you think that the London Bus (and the poster with "immigrants" queueing up at the border) actually had ? just to make it easy for you, you can answer anywhere from 0 to 100% and you should factor in, not just the blatant lies but the effect of the same lies being regurgitated by the press and social media.
Despite the falling sales of daily newspapers and most people taking their newsfeed on line, the effect can be huge.
Moving on.
It's looking more and more likely that we may end up with some kind of customs union with the EU, which would be some kind of middle ground.
It will annoy the hell out of Farage and Boris, which can only be a good thing but, we have to wait and see.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "You say that the "public didnt believe them" and you are right. However, if the remain "propaganda" was all lies, please explain why pretty much all politicians (apart from the hardcore leavers) dont want a "no deal" Brexit.
IF Mrs May, bumles along, still hoping for her deal (plus a few tweaks) can get through and we end up with no deal, I think you may find the prophecy of "project fear" to be a hell of a lot more accurate than you believe.
Let's all hope that it doesn't come to that or, you may just see a shrinking ecconomy (its not exactly growing at the moment) and certain taxes already look like they will need to increase as our logal government services are all cut to the bone (and beyond), policing is in crisis.
The problem with many leavers is the belief of a utopian future, hich, even after 2 years, NOBODY has been able to put forward a decent arguement to substantiate, NOBODY.
It would sure make life interesting though
Most MPs don't want to leave at all - so any kind of leave is bad a no deal leave is catastrophic for them
The MPs will not allow a no deal so that is not an option worth discussing. What happens if we have another vote and again the original is upheld then the only option is a hard-style Brexit
Germany the beacon of Europe is just about to go in to a recession so our economy is not performing really badly when compared to other EU countries. The squeeze on public financing has nothing to with Brexit its a relic of the financial crash.
Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves, issue their own laws and agree their own fiscal policies etc. There are plenty of countries that trade very successfully with the EU that are not members so why should we not be able to achieve that? Nobody appears to have modelled the longer view - perhaps its simply too difficult - let's face it the BOE changes its outlook every quarter.
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "Most MPs don't want to leave at all - so any kind of leave is bad a no deal leave is catastrophic for them
The MPs will not allow a no deal so that is not an option worth discussing. What happens if we have another vote and again the original is upheld then the only option is a hard-style Brexit
Germany the beacon of Europe is just about to go in to a recession so our economy is not performing really badly when compared to other EU countries. The squeeze on public financing has nothing to with Brexit its a relic of the financial crash.
Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves, issue their own laws and agree their own fiscal policies etc. There are plenty of countries that trade very successfully with the EU that are not members so why should we not be able to achieve that? Nobody appears to have modelled the longer view - perhaps its simply too difficult - let's face it the BOE changes its outlook every quarter.'"
You say that most countires will be able to negotiate abetter trade deal by themselves ? Why ?
If you go to the negotiating table with a spen of 500k comapared to entering negotiations with a spend of 5bn, how the hell does this improve your chances of a better deal.
There may be some limited opportunities to negotiate bespoke deals but, overall, I disagree.
There was talk from Farage (and Trump) of getting an early trade deal with the US but, with Trump at the helm, I dont fancy our chances and the rest, please do tell and give us an inkling of how far progressed we are with any of these arrangements or, just how long before they will be in place.
It may wall be that, once out of the EU (assuming that we leave), we still end up on WTO terms with the vast majority of other nations until we actually somt our own deals.
I dont see things going that way but, i'd still be interested in your outlook
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "
Nobody is suggesting in the short term it will be tough but longer term surely it would benefit any country to have the flexibility to do trade deals themselves, '"
The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: tigertot "The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.'"
As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?
Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: tigertot "The basic rules of economics argue against that. As any capitalist should know.'"
The thing about economics is that is isn't an exact science - as we see from Brexit - economists are not all in agreement as to the outcome if/when we leave.
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77270_1562571079.jpg The Leigh and Wakefield fans mentality......
Say something negative about any other team than theirs - Its an opinion
Say something negative about Leigh and Wakefield - TROLL:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_77270.jpg |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?
Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?'"
Please list these countries, along with the terms of the agreements
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?
Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?'"
Surely the test for the UK, when it has left the EU, is to achieve a range of trade deals which are BETTER OVERALL than what we currently have ?? or was this just another lie that everyone knew about ?
We had media overload form "leave" telling us of endless opportunities and reduced tarrifs on everything that the UK currently takes form the EU.
Go on, you can admit it now, they were just talking boll****
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755_1290430740.jpg “At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_755.jpg |
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| Quote: Sal Paradise "As I have said earlier - there are plenty of country with a far smaller GDP than the UK that have managed to do very workable trade deals with the EU - so why shouldn't we?
Are you saying there are no countries that are smaller than the whole of the EU that don't trade on similar or better deals with say the US than the EU?'"
I would say the bulk trading power of the EU gives it a massive overall advantage over any country on the planet. As you well know. Sure you can find the odd deal between a couple of countries that has better terms. It also makes sense on other grounds to trade with nearer neighbours. As you well know.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
Moderator
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| I do wish that May would offer to rule out no deal, to the extent that she can, if Corbyn in return rules out no Brexit, to the extent that he can.
After two and a half years, you’d have thought we might have managed to narrow the options a little. Tbf, May cracked right on with it but didn’t take anybody with her.
Still, good times for people who draw infographics for a living.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Ruune Rebellion "Please list these countries, along with the terms of the agreements'"
Canada/Mexico and the US
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