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Quote: Jukesays "Well that's not true Is it?
They can go out unless they are "Vulnerable".
So what would they be doing if they could "carry on" or whatever it is you think they want to "carry on" doing?
They wouldn't be able to do anything different than what they're doing now unless all the other age groups start opening things up for them.

39% of deaths 60-79
9% of deaths 40 -59

Not an insignificant amount i would say?
Our own prime minister is what? 54/55 ish and they were making plans for his death werent they?
Remember, this is with a large scale lockdown, what would it have been like without it?
The hospitals around Cheltenham experienced 2 to 3 times more covid traffic 2 weeks after the festival, as did liverpool after the CL game.
That's akin to what would happen if we were to release lockdown too early.

Your original statement IMO implied that the majority of over 70s wanted to go out no matter the risks (and you used your parents as an example).
My 70+ aged uncles and aunties, the Bowlers and plenty more I've spoken to accept that even though they may "want" to go out, it isnt the best thing to do yet.
And unless they let all the 60 plus age group out and keep the under 60s on lockdown then it wont be safe for them. Because the ones who arent dying are still passing it on to those that statistically may.'"


What is described as vulnerable - older people with an underlying condition - well most people over 70 will have an underlying condition i.e. heart condition, Copid, diabetes etc. its just a result of ageing.

9% of 31k so c3,000 - 22% of 65m are aged between 40-59 so that's 14.3m so the chances of death in that group is 0.02%. In 2018 there were 54,307 deaths in this age group (33,486 male and 20,821 female) so if we divide that by 12 to give one month 4,525 - so your chances of dying normally is higher than dying of Covid in this age group?

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Quote: King Street Cat ""You then make better use of the facilities" just sounds like throwing a suggestion into the air and seeing what comes down. You must have an idealistic view of state school facilities. A handful of our site's are new, modern, spacious designs. Most are a mish-mash of Victorian buildings, post war knock-ups, and recent add-ons.

Your 12 hour shift works well as a bullish forum post, but in reality it fails to get out of the starting blocks. Do teachers not have kids, too? Do parents not work alternating shifts? Who looks after the kids who are waiting to go to school in the afternoon, or who are finishing at lunchtime? How many extra bus services will be needed at different times of the day? There would be no set rota of staff and students. It would probably have to be done on a weekly, if not daily basis.

I understand kids need to get their education. My 3 year old should have started school in April, and she's completely out of her routine now, but it was it is.

And before you say it, I'm not being overprotective here. I was an only child, latchkey kid. I had my own house key at 8. I used to regularly be alone in the house for 3 hours waiting for my Mum or Dad to get home first, or in the Summer I'd be running off around golf courses and becks with my mates. I believe kids should be able to look after themselves at a certain age, but that's not the society we live in, I'm afraid. Too much blame/claim culture over the last couple of decades has seen normally rational people lose their minds over the slightest thing. Your 6am-6pm school day sounds like a recipe for a truckload of tabloid outrage.'"


Answer the first question - are you saying no education until a vaccine?

Everything is barrier kids want inspiration, teachers that find solutions not dead ends. If you think work patterns are not going change because of this you are delusional - how many are currently working from home? If it meant getting their kids to school they would find a way.

Most buses are empty outside of rush hour - perhaps we need to encourage our kids to walk or cycle to work - splitting the shifts should reduce the burden - isn't that after all what the Government is suggesting when everyone returns to work?

There will be very few secondary schools that have Victorian buildings so come on be realistic.

Teachers haven't suddenly magicked kids - and they don't all have them - so work a rota that enables the best use of the resource - what would you do if you had to make it work?

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "What is described as vulnerable - older people with an underlying condition - well most people over 70 will have an underlying condition i.e. heart condition, Copid, diabetes etc. its just a result of ageing.

9% of 31k so c3,000 - 22% of 65m are aged between 40-59 so that's 14.3m so the chances of death in that group is 0.02%. In 2018 there were 54,307 deaths in this age group (33,486 male and 20,821 female) so if we divide that by 12 to give one month 4,525 - so your chances of dying normally is higher than dying of Covid in this age group?'"


Q1, Vulnerable = whoever had the mail from the government in would guess. If you have an problem with that classification I guess you should take it up with them.
And to class all of them as "Just ageing" is ridiculous.
But if it backs up your argument then you keep on Message.

So yes, 3000 people have died with/of Covid19, however that is on top of any normal death rate.
Just because "x" amount of people die of one thing you dont dismiss something else that's killing people.
And remember, this is whilst we have been in lockdown for 6/7 weeks, how would it have been without it?
I think Bojo keeps referring to his circa 500k as a reasonable worst case scenario whilst celebrating 31,000 deaths and rising as a good effort.
Does that theory not stand anymore? Has something changed with the virus that means we wont get to 500k deaths of were not careful?

Maybe, just maybe, if the government had acted differently earlier and hadnt ignored the warnings then the spikes wouldn't have been as high and the blows would have been easier to get to. Bit due to the exponential rise we are where we are and all that comes with it, and wanting release from lockdown just so people can "get on with things" isnt the answer.
We all want to get on with things.
Just remember to "stay alert", I'm sure you'll know what that means. Another lovely quick and snappy soundbite to stay on message.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "Answer the first question - are you saying no education until a vaccine?

Everything is barrier kids want inspiration, teachers that find solutions not dead ends. If you think work patterns are not going change because of this you are delusional - how many are currently working from home? If it meant getting their kids to school they would find a way.

Most buses are empty outside of rush hour - perhaps we need to encourage our kids to walk or cycle to work - splitting the shifts should reduce the burden - isn't that after all what the Government is suggesting when everyone returns to work?

There will be very few secondary schools that have Victorian buildings so come on be realistic.

Teachers haven't suddenly magicked kids - and they don't all have them - so work a rota that enables the best use of the resource - what would you do if you had to make it work?'"


Yeah King Street cat
"Get on with it"
stop
"putting up Barriers"

"Get schooling done"
"Get back to work"

Stop expressing any concern or knowledge based opinions, just "Get it done".

I'm surprised you havent canvassed Sal for his opinion as some sort of consultant yet.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Answer the first question - are you saying no education until a vaccine?

There will be very few secondary schools that have Victorian buildings so come on be realistic.

what would you do if you had to make it work?'"


No.

As a MAT, we have primaries and secondaries, the majority of which are in post-industrial (coal & steel) areas. Some of the buildings are ancient. There is talk of Reception and Year 6 returning in June.

Forget about going back in the 19/20 year for a start. It's going to need longer than 2 or 3 weeks to get schools prepped for any sort of numbers. Most schools have only got double figure kids at the moment. I'd use the school holidays as a window to get the kids back. Presumably, parents will have some sort of childcare already in place for the school holidays (all may pose a threat to others in some way or another). That gives 6 weeks later down the line to get Reception kids prepped for primary, Year 6 prepped for secondary, Years 10 and 12 prepped for GCSE/A Level, come September, for the 20/21 year. I don't see the point of getting kids back for 6-7 weeks, then having them off again for the 6 week holidays. Start later, and use it as a slow rolling start to September. If Boris has got it right, like his apologists are saying, we should be flying by September.

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Quote: King Street Cat "No.

As a MAT, we have primaries and secondaries, the majority of which are in post-industrial (coal & steel) areas. Some of the buildings are ancient. There is talk of Reception and Year 6 returning in June.

Forget about going back in the 19/20 year for a start. It's going to need longer than 2 or 3 weeks to get schools prepped for any sort of numbers. Most schools have only got double figure kids at the moment. I'd use the school holidays as a window to get the kids back. Presumably, parents will have some sort of childcare already in place for the school holidays (all may pose a threat to others in some way or another). That gives 6 weeks later down the line to get Reception kids prepped for primary, Year 6 prepped for secondary, Years 10 and 12 prepped for GCSE/A Level, come September, for the 20/21 year. I don't see the point of getting kids back for 6-7 weeks, then having them off again for 6 weeks holidays. Start later, and use it as a slow rolling start to September.'"


I would agree about this year but surely the same issues will still exist in September - the fabric of the school wont be any different, the make up/numbers of kids & teachers will be the same so what is going to change to allow it to happen?

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Quote: Jukesays "Q1, Vulnerable

I completely agree re. the government's handling of this - it has been very poor.

Are you saying that our bodies don't deteriorate with age - that is just a ridiculous notion? If you look at those that got the letter a big chunk fell into the categories that I outlined.

There will always be a trade off - relax the lockdown and infections will increase but you cannot lock the country down forever - Germany has seen infections grow.

Perhaps if we all took a bit more ownership of our own behaviour and stayed alert it is our best chance of not contracting the virus. If we don't within 6 feet of anyone outside of our household for an extended period then our chances of infection will be significantly reduced - just a thought?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "I would agree about this year but surely the same issues will still exist in September - the fabric of the school wont be any different, the make up/numbers of kids & teachers will be the same so what is going to change to allow it to happen?'"


The same issues will still exist, but you want the kids back into education, so I've given you a way of getting them back.

The only change I see, which may give us a better chance, is that people will be more accustomed to social distancing by then. If the staggered release is showing signs of success, then it might just work. I'm thinking of it in terms of the start of a marathon. You don't just release everyone at once. It would be carnage.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Perhaps if we all took a bit more ownership of our own behaviour and stayed alert'"


The slogan worked on one person. I'd written it off a total disaster.

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Quote: Sal Paradise "Answer the first question - are you saying no education until a vaccine?

Everything is barrier kids want inspiration, teachers that find solutions not dead ends. If you think work patterns are not going change because of this you are delusional - how many are currently working from home? If it meant getting their kids to school they would find a way.

Most buses are empty outside of rush hour - perhaps we need to encourage our kids to walk or cycle to work - splitting the shifts should reduce the burden - isn't that after all what the Government is suggesting when everyone returns to work?

There will be very few secondary schools that have Victorian buildings so come on be realistic.

Teachers haven't suddenly magicked kids - and they don't all have them - so work a rota that enables the best use of the resource - what would you do if you had to make it work?'"


You do seem to be ignoring the fact that teachers themselves dont feel comfortable teaching kids, who may or may not be carrying the virus and that's before we get to the logistics of getting the kids to school, parents working but, with no childcare (either official or through family members).

Assuming that there can be a restart and on the basis that class sizes have to shrink to make allowance for social distancing, maybe the "start up" could be kids going in every other week, which, although a reduction in teaching, this could be supplemented with some home tutoring and "on line" lessons.

It doesn't help that, after such a long period of Tory rule, class sizes have grown and most classes are "bulging" with pupils.

Within the private education system, I'm sure that the start up will be simpler and quicker to get going but, perhaps we shouldn't go there icon_wink.gif

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Sal Paradise "I completely agree re. the government's handling of this - it has been very poor.

Are you saying that our bodies don't deteriorate with age - that is just a ridiculous notion? If you look at those that got the letter a big chunk fell into the categories that I outlined.

There will always be a trade off - relax the lockdown and infections will increase but you cannot lock the country down forever - Germany has seen infections grow.

Perhaps if we all took a bit more ownership of our own behaviour and stayed alert it is our best chance of not contracting the virus. If we don't within 6 feet of anyone outside of our household for an extended period then our chances of infection will be significantly reduced - just a thought?'"


Yes, if we all just "Stay Alert" that will help.

All news outlets reporting a large increase in road traffic and public transport traffic etc this morning.

Wonder if they remembered to wear face masks as per the briefing some 20hours later by the government.
Oh oh, that was a bit late wasnt it

Maybe they should have released all the details before urging everyone to get back to work?

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Quote: Sal Paradise "


Congratulations you have encapsulated government strategy in one.

Give out confusing and contradictory messages Bojo changes come into play Monday, Raab changes come into play Wednesday.

Last week don’t wear masks, This week wear masks in enclosed spaces.

Meanwhile when it all goes wrong th eTories will be able to say that it was because the public did not stay alert, did not follow the advice. It is all their fault.

Then the SUN will have pictures of idiots getting drunk on the beaches and in the parks and the Tories will come out of it smelling of roses saying.

Nothing to do with us it was all the public’s fault.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Durham Giant "Congratulations you have encapsulated government strategy in one.

Give out confusing and contradictory messages Bojo changes come into play Monday, Raab changes come into play Wednesday.

Last week don’t wear masks, This week wear masks in enclosed spaces.

Meanwhile when it all goes wrong th eTories will be able to say that it was because the public did not stay alert, did not follow the advice. It is all their fault.

Then the SUN will have pictures of idiots getting drunk on the beaches and in the parks and the Tories will come out of it smelling of roses saying.

Nothing to do with us it was all the public’s fault.'"


Correct

Much easier to come out with a 3 or 4 word "slogan" and blame everyone else.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: Durham Giant "Congratulations you have encapsulated government strategy in one.

Give out confusing and contradictory messages Bojo changes come into play Monday, Raab changes come into play Wednesday.

Last week don’t wear masks, This week wear masks in enclosed spaces.

Meanwhile when it all goes wrong th eTories will be able to say that it was because the public did not stay alert, did not follow the advice. It is all their fault.

Then the SUN will have pictures of idiots getting drunk on the beaches and in the parks and the Tories will come out of it smelling of roses saying.

Nothing to do with us it was all the public’s fault.'"


Correct

Much easier to come out with a 3 or 4 word "slogan" and blame everyone else.

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Johnson and his cabinet are deliberately giving out mixed messages, loose rules, contradictory advice, and confusing slogans in the hope that the onus (and more importantly, the blame) can be shifted from the government to the public. Give it a week and the tabloids will be running a daily shaming feature of people meeting in parks and city centres called 'the lockdown breakers'. The comments sections will be filled with "they didn't stay alert" comments.

It's the classic pupil/teacher exchange -
Pupil - "My friend told me to do it"
Teacher - "If your friend told you to jump in front of a truck, would you?"

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1255
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1479
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1214
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1624
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1324
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1559
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1738
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2076
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1691
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1725
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
2048
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M +13,350 80,13214,103
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RLFANS Match Centre
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 Sat 12th Oct
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 Sun 27th Oct
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 Sat 2nd Nov
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ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Sun 6th Oct
L1
15:00
Keighley-Hunslet
WSL2024
16:30
York V-St.HelensW
NRL
09:30
Melbourne-Penrith
Sat 12th Oct
SL
18:00
Hull KR-Wigan
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 5th Oct
CH 29 York27-10Widnes
SL 29 Wigan38-0Leigh
Fri 4th Oct
SL 29 Hull KR10-8Warrington
Sun 29th Sep
L1 25 Rochdale26-46Hunslet
CH 28 Barrow24-26Widnes
CH 28 Bradford50-0Swinton
CH 28 Dewsbury28-8Sheffield
CH 28 Wakefield72-6Doncaster
CH 28 Whitehaven23-20Halifax
CH 28 York16-6Featherstone
Sat 28th Sep
CH 28 Toulouse64-16Batley
SL 28 Warrington23-22St.Helens
NRL 30 Penrith26-6Cronulla
Fri 27th Sep
SL 28 Salford6-14Leigh
NRL 30 Melbourne48-18Sydney
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 28 759 336 423 46
Hull KR 28 729 335 394 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 26 1010 262 748 50
Toulouse 25 744 368 376 35
Bradford 26 678 387 291 34
York 28 682 479 203 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 26 622 500 122 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Swinton 27 474 670 -196 18
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
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