FORUMS > The Sin Bin > The General Election Thread |
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| Quote: BrisbaneRhino "So who comes up with 'the issues'? And you'd be happy with a country that has the death penalty (just time the 'vote' just after a particularly nasty child murder for example)? Speaking of which, how long before paedophiles were executed? How would funding be decided within a sphere - e.g. health? I'd bet hardly anyone who hasn't either been affected or knows someone who has been affected would think of putting much money into mental health for example, let alone understand how best to use those funds. Etc etc.
The problems with the sort of model you suggest would be far, far worse than what we have now. Just check any theme trending on social media to see how mob rule by the masses would work in reality.'"
This is not true at all. Yes, a proportion of the electorate revert to such form. A very large one, too. But do YOU revert to mob behaviour at the first site of a paedophile story in the local paper? I know I don't. I know my friends don't.
I leave you to figure out why this is the case (clue
I really don't see how this is a problem which can't be overcome.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| It's an interesting idea. It would force people become more informed on the issues that they're voting on, and would do away with a media industry that is no longer fit for purpose.
I'd need more details though, for example, whom would appoint and run the civil service? How would be be represented in the European Parliament, the UN etc? Would they have to adopt the same method?
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "It's an interesting idea. It would force people become more informed on the issues that they're voting on, and would do away with a media industry that is no longer fit for purpose.
I'd need more details though, for example, whom would appoint and run the civil service?'"
Give me a chance ... I've only just finished sketching it out on the back of a fag packet! need new ideas today. The current system is just so hopelessly broken it's no longer funny.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "Give me a chance ... I've only just finished sketching it out on the back of a fag packet! need new ideas today. The current system is just so hopelessly broken it's no longer funny.'"
Did you write Ed Balls' economic manifesto as well?
But on the whole I'd agree with you, and I'd argue the problem doesn't just stop with our political system. There needs to be a shift in our paradigm regarding our politics, economy, and how we view the world in general. We seem to be collectively confined by the same dogma we have been for 200 years, and we wonder why so much of the world seems broken.
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67953_1341943970.jpg Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
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| Quote: Mugwump "The whole idea of REPRESENTATION is an anachronism dating back centuries. It necessitates a class of people who once served a critical function in society which is now REDUNDANT in the 21st century. Think about itinformation age[/i. An age of [iinstantaneous communication[/i. There is no longer any NEED to keep financing the upkeep of these charlatans and crooks in parliament... <snip> '"
Good ideas, but I'll advocate once more with feeling, the very first, and possibly only thing that needs to happen with the current method of parliament is to remove the whips.
You can still keep your party's, MP's of a similar persuasion would still be able to gather and discuss issues and present a party manifesto to the public at election times and to their members every working day, but they would have to properly think policies through and convince 51% of 650 MP's (or wherever you place your majority vote) that their policies should be enacted or put into law.
There wouldn't be as much emphasis then on the party in majority because their majority could be lost, or it could be improved at every policy change, everything would depend on their ability to convince enough MP's to individually vote without pressure and retribution from within their own party, in fact I'd go a little further and suggest that any party pressure behind closed doors is made an illegal act as coercion or bribery is, and make the coerciee criminally responsible.
We'd end up with 650 representatives who can vote according to their personal beliefs, or according to their constituents desires and at that point we, the electorate, suddenly become players in the democracy for if a national or local policy grabs our attention then we can easily contact our representative to express our views, its very easy to do this now via the one system of email they all use and this could very simply include spot polls for opinions - it must also be possible given parliaments diary to publish in advance what debates and votes are due in the next month given that that is how parliament works anyway.
In our constituency we have an MP who is prepared to campaign on issues and has voted against his party on 10% of all votes in the last term, is very contactable and publishes his diary of activities every day - we're almost there with him - time to spread it out a bit further afield.
Get rid of the whips, thats all we need.
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "Did you write Ed Balls' economic manifesto as well?
God knows how much his (presumably) lifetime protection detail costs. I'm not convinced he demands one, anyway. IMO, if you're going to stick your neck out politically then you should be brave enough to deal with the consequences - personally.
A couple of weeks later I was talking to one of our customers who runs a major engineering company which refits maritime equipment. He was telling us about George Osborne living in his constituency where HS2 is about to cut the district in two. Apparently, Osborne brought down the wrath of the locals after he flogged his house before the decision was officially announced. He then failed to turn up for the town meeting discussing the project.
It's always dangerous to look back thinking things were better. But at least MPs 50 years ago made some attempt at PUBLIC SERVICE. Alec Douglas-Hume turned down a top job in the city to become Prime Minister because he felt he owed a debt of public service. These lot today would consider him a fool.
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users/saintsold.gif Forever in Rented Accomodation:users/saintsold.gif |
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| Quote: Mugwump "It's always dangerous to look back thinking things were better. But at least MPs 50 years ago made some attempt at PUBLIC SERVICE. Alec Douglas-Hume turned down a top job in the city to become Prime Minister because he felt he owed a debt of public service. These lot today would consider him a fool.'"
Sajid Javid left his £3m a year job to become an MP.
I am sure there literally hundreds of other MP's who have been, and could be earning more, in the private sector before becoming an MP.
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icons077e_files/5885-54zedonite-msnicons.jpg regards
and ENJOY your sport
Leaguefan
"The Public wants what the Public gets" - Paul Weller:icons077e_files/5885-54zedonite-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: EHW "Sajid Javid left his £3m a year job to become an MP.'"
How do you earn that type of money if you aren't:
Ripping people off.
Charging too much.
Not paying the rest a fair salary.
Winning the lottery annually
Receiving "bonuses" which again is another way that the first 2 points apply.
I don't know, but I do know that "trickle down" doesn't work, Food banks are on the increase, there are too many people incapable of doing the jobs that industry is crying out for because you need to be able to think and develop and the current educational system basically discourage such radical thoughts. Add that most businesses see "training" as dead money and if they do train others will poach , yet if £3m a year is available to some, it seems to me that perhaps the whole system is quite a bit wonky.
Ah well
We live in interesting times.
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| I guess that you aren't earning £3M pa yourself, then?
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Leaguefan "How do you earn that type of money if you aren't
what about being particularly good at what you do. If David Hockney were earning 3m a year how would he fit into your categorisation? Same goes for Rory McIlroy
More complete b0ll0cks from the very envious Leaguefan
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| Quote: EHW "Sajid Javid left his £3m a year job to become an MP.'"
To become an MP ... and DO WHAT?
Serve the British public or serve himself and members of his class?
I mean, he sure [iseems [/ilike he's on our side - what with him deciding to cut £10bn of "Red Tape From Small Businesses". Who could possibly be against[i free money[/i? Makes you wonder why no one bothered to do it decades of go. Makes you wonder what he means by "Red Tape" - and whether any of his personal interests are affected by this policy.
This is a guy who worked for Deutsche bank. Which means, like his colleagues across the pond, he's been parachuted in to protect the interests of the banking community.
Quote: EHW "I am sure there literally hundreds of other MP's who have been, and could be earning more, in the private sector before becoming an MP.'"
Oh ... the [ihumanity![/i
I'll leave it to Peter O'Borne's superb rlThe Triumph of the Political Classrl (and subsequent) to administer a much-needed antidote to your perception of (and faith in) members of Parliament.
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25511_1478008518.jpg "Well, I think in Rugby League if you head butt someone there's normally some repercusions":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_25511.jpg |
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| Quote: Mugwump "I remember when Shaun Woodward paid us a visit at work a couple of years ago. '"
Just before he became Tory leader David Cameron opened our office in Witney. He didn't have security, instead he oozed through the front door, his motion lubricated by the oiliest Lord Mayor you could possibley imagine. He (the Mayor, not Cameron) said to me, while quaffing the free champagne, "if there is anything you need just let me know" while actually nudging me and winking. Straight out of Monty Python.
I also had the misfortune to run into Rees Mogg the Friday morning after the election - 5am at Bath University. The Scotsman I was with decided to share his views with him about leaving the EU. I don't think I could have managed much more than a c***, w*******, J**z faced t***. So elected to remain silent. Where are terrorists when you need them eh?
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