Excess mortality is the best we can currently compare between countries, imo. https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... omparisons Although I don’t much care for Johnson and have mixed feelings about Cummings, they’re two largely fungible dudes in the greater scheme and while, with hindsight they probably misjudged the benefit-risk early on and some of Johnson’s laid back statements are painful to read now, they were working with a very limited evidence base. The underlying issues, they inherited - albeit from previous Conservative governments. And much of it will be more structural than political. I’d be curious to know the proportion of elderly people living in care homes across other countries vs the UK. The excess mortality there has been massive in the UK.

Excess mortality is the best we can currently compare between countries, imo. https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comm ... omparisons Although I don’t much care for Johnson and have mixed feelings about Cummings, they’re two largely fungible dudes in the greater scheme and while, with hindsight they probably misjudged the benefit-risk early on and some of Johnson’s laid back statements are painful to read now, they were working with a very limited evidence base. The underlying issues, they inherited - albeit from previous Conservative governments. And much of it will be more structural than political. I’d be curious to know the proportion of elderly people living in care homes across other countries vs the UK. The excess mortality there has been massive in the UK.

You said that most older people want to go out etc and are not bothered about dying if that's the consequence.
I'm sure loads of over 70s or even everyone in general want to go out more, we all do.
The issue is about it being safe to do so and how it affects other people not just themselves. Remember flattening the curve, making sure our NHS had enough capacity etc.
Theyve ballsed this up the first time round, each person will have their own perspective on that and tibwhat extent, they cant make it again.

Simeone said to me that all these young uns flouting the rules was a disgrace, and if it was the older ones theyd do what it takes to protect the young. Is that not true?

They can go out, they can take their hourly walk or so, they can go into their back gardens etc. They can go shopping when needed.
As you say they dont have many other places to go unless those places open up, what will that mean?

As for my family members dying, he was 48 (would have been 49 last Wednesday).
My mother and father in laws best friend was about 68/69.
Not sure what point you were trying to make, other than I may be lying?
PS
At the funeral my uncle told me about 2 of his mates that have died in the last 6 days of the virus (I knew them vaguely). They were both 70ish and over, is this ok?
Wonder what they and their relatives would think?

PS did you watch the Bojo superman thing I mentioned?
I watched the I terview also where he carried on shaking hands with people with coronavirus and eveyotng should just "Carry on'.
Wonder how he felt when lying on that bed thinking he may die???

It was a genuine comment - you have been unlucky - stats suggest chances of dying of Covid under 50 is no greater than normal life - I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.

What the old are saying - if general media is correct - they understand the risks - they are not even supposed to go out for a walk or go to the supermarket for 12 weeks - they simply want the opportunity to get out of the house and live as normal a life as the rest of us given we are in lockdown.

I’m not aware that over 70’s are on a 12 week complete stay at home - that’s just for the high risk “shielded” who have had a letter isn’t it

Well that's not true Is it?
They can go out unless they are "Vulnerable".
So what would they be doing if they could "carry on" or whatever it is you think they want to "carry on" doing?
They wouldn't be able to do anything different than what they're doing now unless all the other age groups start opening things up for them.

39% of deaths 60-79
9% of deaths 40 -59

Not an insignificant amount i would say?
Our own prime minister is what? 54/55 ish and they were making plans for his death werent they?
Remember, this is with a large scale lockdown, what would it have been like without it?
The hospitals around Cheltenham experienced 2 to 3 times more covid traffic 2 weeks after the festival, as did liverpool after the CL game.
That's akin to what would happen if we were to release lockdown too early.

Your original statement IMO implied that the majority of over 70s wanted to go out no matter the risks (and you used your parents as an example).
My 70+ aged uncles and aunties, the Bowlers and plenty more I've spoken to accept that even though they may "want" to go out, it isnt the best thing to do yet.
And unless they let all the 60 plus age group out and keep the under 60s on lockdown then it wont be safe for them. Because the ones who arent dying are still passing it on to those that statistically may.

All sorted.
You can sit on park benches and go back to work if you oil your bicycle chain.

The country has been asking for a plan, they now have it, with conditions.

The Tories love bicycles.

They've ordered a million cycling high visibility vests from Turkey.
One hole to put both arms through.

Although nobody can go back to work because their employers havent been given time to prepare for the "unknown".
There is also a problem now, with the 4 parts of the UK all having slightly different rules for their people, which becomes magnified for anyone living in, say, Wales but, working in England.

There is devolved government, which in may ways is a good thing but, for the Covid19 situation, it may have been helpful to have a UK wide policy ?

I got the impression it was more to do with reducing the cost to the government by those on furlough returning to work even if the businesses are not yet ready.

Once again, the new "plan" seems half baked and not properly thought through, not to mention the different parts of the UK now working at slightly different speeds.
There is no doubt that the nation is haemorrhaging money at a huge rate and that somehow, a way has to be found to unlock the ecconomy but, I'm not sure this is it, although, it's worth noting that a number of countries are already having to tighten their new slightly less stringent rules.
It's one hell of a conundrum.

More employers shut down originally than expected. Hence the change in 'branding' from stay at home to stay alert. Let's get the economy going, whilst keeping people safe. Behaviourally we now understand social distancing, that hasn't changed, let's get it into the workplace.

As for the variation in the 4 countries, just do what they say in the country you live.

The first part "may" be possible for some employers / employees but, definitely not with 12 hours notice ??

The second part is a little odd/impossible with absolutely open borders between England / Scotland and England / Wales

If you live in Wrexham and work in Chester or visa versa, what are you permitted to do ?

Also, in theory, you could drive into Wales to go walking (from Wednesday) but, in Wales itself, you are supposed to stay home ??

These are just a couple of examples

The new "rules" are as clear as mud