I think gammon and irony are mutually exclusive.

I doubt many brexitiers are bothered about a border in Ireland - I suggest to you its the likes of Tusk who are more concerned.

The leavers want to control the level of immigration - not free movement of goods - or have I got that wrong?

Surely you use a visa system to control immigration - if we go on holiday in Europe we still have to go through passport control so the idea that we all move freely through Europe without any checks is a myth.

Indeed - many Brexiters aren't bothered about a border in Ireland - which is precisely part of the problem; they should have been, and by extension should have found a satisfactory way to resolve it up front, rather than scrambling around now in pursuit of a unicorn solution that either doesn't exist, or is entirely unacceptable to all the other parties involved.

The vast majority of stock moves across borders with no check - on the basis of appropriate paperwork. If every container were opened and checked nothing would ever move. As I pointed the best supply chains originate in South East Asia e.g. Apple and manage to make it into Europe without delay. The Irish border is a red herring put out as a last ditch attempt by remainers.

No it's not a red herring - and no amount of parroting Mr Farage will make it so; this was entirely avoidable, if the hard Brexiteers weren't holding May to ransom to also leave the customs union - which was never a question on the referendum, and indeed some Brexit supporters said at the time that it wasn't part of the deal.

If we were staying in the customs union, or even *a* customs union as per Labour's policy, the Irish border issue would disappear in puff of economic and political common sense.

Bang on the money but, the more right wing elements of the Tory party expect to have their cake, eat it and go back for seconds.
This may be ok as a starting point for negotiation but, it's also fantasy island stuff, which is exactly where some of them belong. They are so bloody insular that they sould be granted their own piece of land and let them get on with ruling over feck all.

We must agree to differ on the real impact of a border in Ireland and the amount of freight that is illegally going to cross the border and also the sea into Europe or the other way.

Every country in the EU is awash with class A drugs - what does that tell you about the effective management of the borders that the EU supposedly hold so dear?

You're either deliberately obtuse, or thick, if you can't recognise that the question of a border in Ireland is not just about freight; it has significant political, historical and cultural baggage that no amount of Farage repetition will magic away.

You personify the problem with the whole Brexit cluster - the constant refusal to understand, address and resolve *real* issues - preferring instead, it would seem, to hang on to some fantasy idea that it would all be sorted if we simply believe a bit harder, and "get on with it."

Unbelievable amounts of blind faith in a bunch of self-interested, wealthy elites, who will never be in any way even mildly inconvenienced by the disaster they're forcing us into.

Because I don't see things the way you think I should I'm thick!! typical remainer in my opinion

Its people like you that make the border in Ireland to be suddenly something similar to the wall in Berlin - its not and it doesn't mean all of a sudden armageddon. The paras are active on both sides just its called organised crime and it touches every activity both sides of the border - if you think that isn't happening you are more stupid than I thought. All parties are making plenty of money why would they want a change.

Your faith is we stay in nothing changes - no prospect of any real growth unless the EU decides - I would say its the likes of you and your blinkered view of the future that is holding the country back - but you lefties always know what's best for everyone else as long as you are top of the food chain when the revolution happens. Hypocrites of the highest order when you talk about wealthy elites.

I thought it was immigration?

You're assuming nationalist terrorists are all solely motivated by money.

I recall there was a bit more to it and it goes back 400+ years.

I think it the view that one of the biggest/wealthiest nations on the planet is incapable of prospering outside of the EU. Plenty of big nations mange to survive without tugging Donald Tusk's forelock so why can't we?

My view is bad deal will be done but we will survive and prosper without the need to prop up some of the basket cases in the EU

Well, we have some agreement in that, like you, I think we will get a deal that nobody wants (a bad deal) and there is no doubt that we will survive whether we are in the EU or outside.
The key is our relative prosperity and whether we will be better off in or out.

Many of the leave brigade acknowledge that we will be worse off in the short term and suggest that this "is a price worth paying" and in 5 or 10 years time, nobody will know whether things would have been better had we stayed within the EU, although we will be able to measure the "growth" in the UK compared with our neighbours and other members of the G20.

Since the leave vote, we have dropped back a little and if we are to take a "hit" we will drop back even further.

As for hanging on to anything Trump related, wow.

You'd rather attach yourself to one of the worlds most unpredictable leaders than stay within the EU, interesting.

I would rather attach myself to an economy that has proved itself to be the most powerful and robust over a long period of time in the world - its current leader maybe erratic but he has precised over significant growth since he started his tenure. He will not be there long term

He is also not afraid of fight which I think is a very positive thing - I think if we had been more aggressive with the EU we would have had a deal by now. If we had been represented by people from the business community and not civil servants we would not be in the mess we are in now.

I have said it before plenty of economies smaller than ours have managed to prosper outside of the EU and that includes dealing successfully with the tariffs imposed by the EU.

We need to take a long term view of life outside of the EU not what might happen in the first two years

They idea that the economy will simply evaporate, we will all starve and we wont be able to get medicine is project fear - it simply will not happen. Most on remain side with a modicum of intelligence will accept that. Plenty of product from outside of the EU flows without delay through/into the EU

It is like the Irish border - out and out war isn't going to happen if a border is reinstated - the troubles in the 70s were a distant memory when the GFA was signed.