There were 24 started my course and a few took this attitude towards studies, all those that did never made the 2nd year. I think you are generalising and in fact the majority (from what I saw) do not behave in this manner.

The Video Ref isn't far wrong in my eyes. Of course people can offer examples of when friends and family members work hard and never fit in with that stereotype but try walking around a University town or city midweek at night and consider whether the generalisation is far wrong.

Even if Johnny has told his parents that he is skint and too busy with his 5 year Mechanical Engineering course, you will probably find him out and about getting smashed on a Tuesday night, dressed as a smurf after drinking a bottle of Malibu in his flat beforehand, before throwing up in the 24 hour student library and walking home with a selection of road signs for the morning.

Of course its wrong! You would have to be pretty stupid to believe it were true! Why? Well take the University my son has gone to which is where I went, Aberystwyth. Term time the population of the town swells by about 8000 these days (it was half that when I was there).

Are there going to be 8000 students out on the town midweek? Nope. Will [isome[/i of them be out on the town midweek? Yes. How many will you see out on the town midweek? A few hundred if that. Will it be the same people out on the town every week? Nope.

What I am getting at here is that in a student population of 8000 you will always be able to find some of them out on the town just as you will always find some of them in the library or working in the labs or whatever.

It stands to reason in cities with even larger student populations that students part of these populations will exhibit different behavior at different times.

All you are doing is seeing a group of friends or say the students rugby club (or whatever) out for night out and concluding that all students spend their time doing this. It's a ridiculous position to take. It's like me seeing you in a pub and concluding you are an alcoholic.



I am absolutely certain students, just like other young people, will go out and have a bender every now and again. They are not going to a monastery and they have as much right to blow off steam as anyone else but this generalization of yours is ridiculous.

If this doesn't convince people who think that degrees are useless unless they are vocational that this isn't the case, nothing will.

There is so much more to university education than the study of the degree subject. It is the kind of personal development you mention above that adds so much value to it. Pretty much like yourself doing the degree was something that for me made a huge difference on a personal level. I did do a vocational degree and have worked in the field ever since but I was totally unfazed at being sent to Switzerland by my first employer after a matter of weeks in the job. The thought of me doing this four years earlier would have never entered my or anyone else's head who knew me then.

It is very heartening to read that someone who has graduated recently has got the same sort of benefit from their degree outside of the subject studied as I did over 30 years ago. It is this kind of personal development that always led to employers looking for graduates as opposed to just clever people.

So such personal development is only available via a degree course?

I must say I find it so sad that many of today's job's require a degree to merely get a foot in the door. Long gone are the day's of people starting at the very bottom and working their way up. It's such a shame for those who don't excel academically, but do so in a working environment, and I include myself in that category. Now don't have the chance to follow their dreams, because employers stipulate a degree to be necessary.

I know that myself and many of my older colleagues, wouldn't be where we are now without having had the chance to start at the very bottom. That's of course no longer an optional path. A degree in Marine engineering is a must. But for me we exclude so many viable candidates purely because they didn't excel in an educational environment that may not have suited them in the first place, and it's wrong.

This is going to sound terribly biased but many of our recent recruits from university. Don't wish to get their hands dirty. Don't understand the very basics of the job, because they've never been exposed to it. Yet act as if they know it all. On the job training should be the way to go in in many cases, depending on the job of course. Unfortunately the opposite to that has happened in nearly every case, and we are far worse off for it. Certainly in my sector.

Ha. Ace. So your whole theory is based on the fact that your son is currently studying at Aberystwyth? Well my 3 years at the University of Sheffield painted a very different picture but you probably won't believe it so I won't go down that path.

However, note how The Video Ref mentions that it is very much prevalent in the first year, a key point as to why I agreed with him. In most cases, the first year counts for nothing and the pass mark is ridiculously low. Hence students are out on the lash a hell of a more frequently while being a student than they would be as a "normal" member of society.

I have seen people who come across during the day as extremely sensible and respectable descend into situations that you wouldn't believe at night. I go back to Sheffield occasionally and its a completely different atmosphere during the week when students are out compared to that at the weekend when it is mainly "locals".

I think you are pretty out of touch with the reality of the situation to be honest.

And my 7 years at the University of Bradford painted a completely different picture to yours. Maybe you just keep bad company? Or maybe you're just on a wind up. Again.

Nope. Plus that wasn't the company I kept, however I had eyes that reached beyond my own circle of friends and activities.

Maybe it is different at smaller Universities and places that aren't so geared up for students. Hence very different experiences.

What the hell does it matter if students go out and get drunk on a night? As long as they do the work who cares in this context?

Yup.