How much say do the judges actually get when it comes to putting through contestants for the live shows? Not much I suspect as the producers will want the highest ratings they can possibly get so will want the ones who will keep the viewers attention.

To be fair the judges all work in the industry so they understand who is likely to be marketable or not, so they probably have a good idea of who will be the best for getting people to watch the show.

I don't get why people are surprised that it isn't a straightforward singing or talent contest, its an entertainment show that succeeds or fails based on maximising its audience figures so that it can make more money by selling advertising (think what Talk Talk etc are paying), there have been other reality shows that have marketed themselves more on being a straightforward search for talent but they don't get the same audiences. They try to cover as many demographics as possible eg there will always be an Irish contestant on it because that gets Irish viewers, they love the idea of an Irish underdog winning a British show...they will try and spread the others across the regions.

Also the music industry has types of singer/types of image that are 'in' like the fashion industry does, which Gary Barlow pretty much openly admitted, that was why he rejected that lad with fake tan and the veneers on his teeth, who was a decent singer but just looked a bit dated, whereas the skinny indie boy with skintight jeans and the tattoos on his ass and the scouser that always wears a hat were just average singers but have got more marketable images in the current climate. Had Adele not been around, then the fat Scottish girl would have been a good contestant as she has a good voice, but really that space in the market has been filled, there isn't enough space for two of them (and to be fair, she was a poor man's Adele, and Adele herself is a poor man's Alison Moyet).

Every year people say this stuff about "it's a joke, it should be able the best singers going through" but also every year there will be a 'shock eviction' in week 4 or 5 where one of the better singers goes out and some of the joke acts are still in - thats perfectly plausible, people don't vote for the best singers they vote for the entertaining ones that they want to watch on TV. And as for these theories that the public vote is 'fixed'....I very much doubt it. The producers will use the public vote as the guide for which characters people want to watch, and they will make sure they stay in, because the aim of the producers is to maximise their profits, and EVERYTHING will be about the audience rating figures each week, the whole leverage they have with advertisers, what big name stars they can get to perform on the show etc, it all comes down to how the audience rating figures compare to everything else on TV. Given that there is so much multimedia and different distractions these days, to get a show on mainstream TV that has huge ratings is very difficult, so much as people like to slag Simon Cowell off, he has achieved a pretty difficult feat to get the ratings that his shows get.

How awful was that tonight

The two minutes that I watched were very awful and complete with the most condescending judges comments.

Tulisa is terrible.

All she could come out with was wittering on about "energy" and describing acts as "amazing".

I had the programme on for about 40 seconds, then i heard Tulsa (or whatever she's called) come out with that classic "you made that song your own" bollcock.

Turned it over then

I cannot believe that Amelia Lilly has gone. Easily the best of the girls.

The programme loses more credibility everytime and even then it was starting from a pretty low level.

The four girls are the best of a bad bunch so it's a bit stupid that one of them had to go, but they've got to create a bit of controversy because the programme is just so bad.

She was the worst of the four girls last night so it was only fair she went - although it was an abysmal song choice for her style of singing.

I'm a little bit in love with Sophie Habibis though, so I'm glad she stayed in...

Yeah, shame she went.
Thought it was great she couldn't say anything at the end, why bother when it was clearly bollox.
Kelly Roland had to go scooting after her in a fit of guilt.
Poor Amelia.

You wonder what the 'mentoring' adds to these acts?

If it was me I'd have given them a vocal coach to help with their singing and a few bob to spend on clothes. If you take Amelia she came on the auditions and judges house with her own image, she looked like quite a cool teenage girl that other girls would look up to, she was well spoken and confident and she sang really well. Then she goes into the X factor house, makeover people dye her hair and make her look ridiculous with make up, dress her in stupid clothes and give her a song totally wrong for a teenage girl to sing! I know we all take the mick out of X factor but you could tell to her it was important and she really wanted to give it a good go so no wonder she was upset at the end, she's been shafted by the makeover staff and whoever made her sing that song.

Absolutely spot on sally cinnamon.
They let her down badly ... and I think they knew it.
I only saw a brief clip of her effort, but it wasn't the cute, striking young girl I first saw. It was as though they had added another ten years to her age and turned her into a witch.

There ought to be a record label called 'Fook the X-factor' where such as Amelia and the guy with the veneered teeth, who failed twice and lost to that dreadful Frankie Cockend, could go and make a recording.
I think they would make a fortune in showing the X-factor up.

PS Matt Cardle singing a Gary Barlow song ........?
It didn't work for me.
Not one of your best that one Gary!

The guy with the veneered teeth was quite a good singer but I don't know who he would sell songs to. His image was a bit too over the top clean and polished, he looked too gay to appeal to young girls, and too gay to appeal to guys, he was probably just going to appeal to housewives and older women who thought wouldn't it be nice to have a son like that and I don't know if that's a big enough market, so X factor probably thought he wouldn't get many people actually inspired to phone vote for him. Frankie on the other hand, is not going to be good enough to make a career as a singer because he is pretty rank average, but he is someone they can use for 5 or 6 weeks to market to the teenage girl audience, they have been pushing this image of him as a stud who can't keep his hands off the ladies. I had to laugh when I saw something in a paper the other day saying him and Amelia were an item, and a quote from her saying "he's not actually as much of a bad boy party animal as people think"....course he isn't, the producers are just pushing that image, he's just a normal 18 year old lad that you could pull out of any college. Look for another story soon saying he's shacked up with one of the other girls now Amelia's gone, so they can do an article "Amelia's heartbreak" - hopefully she will be too smart and savvy to drop the quotes they want into their lap.

IMO the winner will come from one of the two scouse lads, but they both look like typical X factor winners that will have one Christmas number one and you will never hear from them again. If Amelia hadn't been on X factor and had just come out of nowhere like Pixie Lott with her original image before X factor messed about with her, I could see her doing well because young girls would have seen her as 'cool' and confident/independent, she was clearly in an ability range well above the other contestants.

I like the scousers, but the manufactured group Risk might be the ones this time.

Amelia looks 16 going on 30. Awful image.

Despite me quite liking Amelia while she was on the show I have started to find her a bit irritating this week. We haven't heard much from the others that were voted off but Amelia has been in the papers every day doing interviews and photographed in a tarty red dress posing for the paparazzi at various openings for this and that. She seems to be playing the life of a celebrity which is a dangerous route to go down when all she is actually 'famous' for so far is for auditioning at X factor and getting onto live shows then going out in the first week. Also her interviews are slightly too cocky, lots of people thought she was good, but she has been saying stuff like "I think Kelly just picked a name out of a hat" and "none of the other contestants could have done Billie Jean like I did" and "if it had been down to the public I would have got through because my fan base is huge".

This is the problem when you take a 16 year old girl who is quite cool and talented, give her a taste of glitz and glamour and surround her with sycophants telling her how great she is and how she's going to be a star. I also get the impression her parents have got money and are quite pushy, her older brother went on some reality show to get in the West End with Andrew Lloyd Webber at a similar age and they were pushing him and are now in the papers slagging off the X factor for booting their daughter out...that's not going to be a good thing if she gets seen as the 'girl with the pushy parents'.