~gets popcorn and sits down to wait patiently~

Lets bite the bullet on this one and say the unpalatable thing that everyone is well aware of but is afraid to say - the vast majority of those who previously were claiming any form of social support and especially those in receipt of any sort of disability benefit are the very last ones to be employed even in a healthy economic climate.

A deaf and blind man who is fed through a tube and needs 24 hour care is a stupid anomoly (the assessors being the stupid element) and I'm sure that when they put someone on the review case who has a brain that functions then the decision will be reversed for if it isn't then we will all know the absolute truth.

But the more common truth is that a fit and healthy person with a constant employment record (until the recession kicked in), with glowing references and a 100% attendance and 0% sickness record will still find it impossible to find work at the moment as 2 million plus will testify, the actually sick and disabled but now struck off the benefits register stand in line a long way behind those people when seeking employment in a private business world and with the public sector not recruiting then that is what they are left with.

No employer will employ a person who may have mobility problems, who may have to take periods of sick leave, who may have to attend frequent doctors visits, who may have permanent but not absolutely debilitating conditions, ahead of a person presented who has an unblemished health record - its just not going to happen in a private business no matter how much bull the politicians throw our way and no matter how much discrimination legislation you try and enforce - its unenforceable unless you have a government lawyer sitting on every interview.

I just don't understand this attitude that says to the friend of mine who worked for forty years in social services doing home help social care until her knees cave din and she had to have one knee completely replced with a plastic one, which then failed and has left her unable to walk more than 500 yards let alone kneel and/or lift patients in and out of bed - to then say to this person who only last year was given a disability allownace, "No, although your assesment hasn't changed you are no longer considered unfit for work and must seek out employment", its true, she could sit at a desk all day but she's never done that work before, so where is the work going to come from ?

Why the hell they don't just say "We no longer support or care for the long term or permenantly disabled, now go and seek charity" like they used to do in the 1800's ?

I was only reading last week on a group I belong that share our experiences with Atos and DWP that someone had been to a Work Related Activity Group meeting at the JobCentre and they actually said to not mention your disability at interview stage, to only mention it once you have the job!! This is the JobCentre staff giving this advice to lie at interview and I have no reason to doubt the person who posted this. As for answering Sal; not one of us is actually opposed to being re-tested, all we ask is that it is done fairly and sensibly and not re-test the chap in Coddys quoted article or amputees or blind people every year. Every 5 - 10 years would be fair so they have an up to date record of that persons condition. We also want the questions to be fair which Labour brought in but this government changed all the questions on the ESA50 form March last year. When you're asked can you pick up a pen and are given a tick box of yes or no without no room for further expanding and on the new PIP forms you cannot mention the pain or how many times you have to stop when walking x distance, then you know you're on a hiding to nothing. The actual fraud in benefits is: Income Support: 2.4% JobSeeker's Allowance: 4.1% Pension Credit: 2.3% Housing Benefit: 1.3% Incapacity Benefit: 0.3% Disability Living Allowance: 0.5% Retirement Pension: 0.0% Carer's Allowance: 3.9% Found here: wheresthebenefit.blogspot.co.uk/ ... ppers.html These are the governments (DWP) own figures that the likes of IDS like to ignore and quote very inflated and semi truth figures. He churns out the same old mantra, 75 % of ESA claimants have been found fit for work. Yes, the have, but what he fails to tell you, and he knows the truth damn well but choses not to disclose it, is that 40% have their ESA benefit reinstated at appeal because Atos have either misrepresented the information or told outright lies on the computer system called LIMA which is a tick box system and the health care professional* and I use that term loosly, has to find the right statement which best fits the answer the claimant has given. They are not allowed to treat every person's condition individually. * They don't have to be Doctors. I could have a midwife, nurse or physiotherapist assess my rheumatoid arthritis and say I am fit for work even though I have letters from my rheumatologist who is one of the top Professors in rheumatology in the country saying I am not fit for work at the moment.

I was only reading last week on a group I belong that share our experiences with Atos and DWP that someone had been to a Work Related Activity Group meeting at the JobCentre and they actually said to not mention your disability at interview stage, to only mention it once you have the job!! This is the JobCentre staff giving this advice to lie at interview and I have no reason to doubt the person who posted this. As for answering Sal; not one of us is actually opposed to being re-tested, all we ask is that it is done fairly and sensibly and not re-test the chap in Coddys quoted article or amputees or blind people every year. Every 5 - 10 years would be fair so they have an up to date record of that persons condition. We also want the questions to be fair which Labour brought in but this government changed all the questions on the ESA50 form March last year. When you're asked can you pick up a pen and are given a tick box of yes or no without no room for further expanding and on the new PIP forms you cannot mention the pain or how many times you have to stop when walking x distance, then you know you're on a hiding to nothing. The actual fraud in benefits is: Income Support: 2.4% JobSeeker's Allowance: 4.1% Pension Credit: 2.3% Housing Benefit: 1.3% Incapacity Benefit: 0.3% Disability Living Allowance: 0.5% Retirement Pension: 0.0% Carer's Allowance: 3.9% Found here: wheresthebenefit.blogspot.co.uk/ ... ppers.html These are the governments (DWP) own figures that the likes of IDS like to ignore and quote very inflated and semi truth figures. He churns out the same old mantra, 75 % of ESA claimants have been found fit for work. Yes, the have, but what he fails to tell you, and he knows the truth damn well but choses not to disclose it, is that 40% have their ESA benefit reinstated at appeal because Atos have either misrepresented the information or told outright lies on the computer system called LIMA which is a tick box system and the health care professional* and I use that term loosly, has to find the right statement which best fits the answer the claimant has given. They are not allowed to treat every person's condition individually. * They don't have to be Doctors. I could have a midwife, nurse or physiotherapist assess my rheumatoid arthritis and say I am fit for work even though I have letters from my rheumatologist who is one of the top Professors in rheumatology in the country saying I am not fit for work at the moment.

And that is the actual disgrace, a government funded, very expensive procedure, with a 40% failure rate. If this were a "normal" private business in the retail environment, lets say they made washing machines, with a 40% failure rate how many among us think they would survive their first year of operation ?

Unfortunately despite promising greater efficiences by using private companies rather than civil servants, governments of all shades do not do performance assesments very well, they do not replace a company for not doing the job properly unless a whistle blower can shout "fraud!" and make it stick solid as in the recent A4e scandal which they quickly localised and pinned on rogue employees so as to minimise the number of eventually cancelled contracts - governments of all shades do not like doing this as it reflects badly on their own judgement and political direction and ultimately could bring down a Prime Minister.



And your earlier para about job centre advice for the disabled does not surprise me, frankly if I had a disability that could be hidden at interview even for a short while, then I would for its the only way that the long term sick and permenantly disabled but now fit for work are going to be considered equally with the rest of the applicants despite lots of bollax equal opportunity legislation that cannot ever work in a private business when job selection is so often made on whims and personal choice followed up by the correct box ticking to prove equality.

It should be mentioned that Atos don't have the money taken off them either for every decision thats overturned at appeal so its in their best interests to find as many people fit for work and not have to worry about "refunds". If the system was different, that they had to pay back a percentage for every sucessful appeal I think the figures that IDS so loves to quote would be a lot lower. Jobs for the boys yet again.

Eithewr this disfunctional bunch of misfits have completely lost the plot or Cameron and his chums have been under deep-cover for many years, as agents for another state, determined to competely wrech the fabric of British society.

Not content with hammering the sick, elderly, poor (working or not) and those who employ them, the latest target is now the Civil Service. Not just the minions but also the upper echelons

The whole sorry saga of this government is starting to read like a cross between a Shakespearean tragedy and a Whitehall farce.

Another excellent post from Mr Field.

Has Sal been on yet to explain what happened when he shopped his cheating, druggie relatives?

Too busy in the real world I understand

Now we know.

Anyone who is opposed to tax cuts is just exhibiting rl'sexual jealousy'.rl

Provided it is done well, it is a sensible idea. Public sector pay should reflect local employment market conditions otherwise there is a major distortion in the labour market. Under the current system public sector workers get paid relatively well in, say, the NE then there are two ramifications of that - private sector growth in the NE is liklely to be stifled (as the best people will work in the public sector there) and people in, say, London doing the equivalent public sector job as their NE colleague will be under-paid relative to the local jobs market. That will result in less good staff being retained.

In, say, NHS terms, that might serve to smooth out the postcode lottery.

And that's why companies such as, M&S, use regional pay.

Oh, hang on – they don't.

True. Proof - Bernie Ecclestone and his ex- wife.

That's their decision. But, if M&S is representative then public sector pay would remain level. So, it's a non-point.

Big, successful companies knowing full well that regional pay is not the way forward and not of benefit is an entirely valid point.

Just as it to point out that plenty of private companies work with unions because it's effective – and allow facility time because it's effective and worthwhile.

That doesn't fit with the propaganda of the sexually non-jealous and their idiot mates, but that doesn't mean it's not a fact.

And it's 'their' – not "there".