Views like this won't help Labour recover from their shambolic performance.

UKIP have picked up working class support and it would be wise to actually discover the real reasons for this rather than just dismiss them all as 'simplistic idiots' whose votes can be written off.

A long time in opposition for Labour with views like this.

You mean the referendum? That was AV not PR.

It wasn't. The vote was on AV, which I think Nick Clegg himself (the main force behind the referendum) described as a 'ty little compromise'.

I fear the referendum on AV has killed off the prospect of electoral reform, bar a bit of tinkering with the boundaries, for a generation. And neither of the 2 main parties who have a majority government will ever agree to a referendum on PR, since if implemented they would never again form a majority.

The big thing to watch out for at the moment is the likes of Balls making a comeback via the Lords. Which is cronyism at its worst.

It just shows how thick the British public are that's all

Too many RIGHT WING APOLOGISTS out there.

AV was rejected in 2011, it is not the only form of PR available

As a former student of Politics, I can assure you that AV is not classed as PR.

Was going to say. I'd never heard it described as a form of PR, as it's another form of a majority voting system.

The EU issue is a massive problem for Cameron to negotiate. The Conservative Party is far from unanimous on the issue. I think it is fair to say there is widespread distaste and even loathing for the many deeply questionable and even openly venal practices the EU engages in but doesn't mean everyone thinks it is best to leave, what you don't find is any facile apologetics about the EU project, some may think it is worth wearing a peg on one's nose for but they're not pretending it's a fashion statement. I think a sizeable chunk of the party are desperately hoping for some willingness to reform from within the EU, even if it's just token gestures, but the realists know it is unlikely to happen as the problems are so deeply culturally ingrained that the patrons of the regime will not give them up.

The referendum has to happen, but it will cause a terrible split between those Conservatives who will argue that Britain needs to put a peg on its nose and look the other way as it gets a deal because the alternative of coming out is even worse, and those who will be morally outraged at the wetness of the other side. And for the avoidance of doubt I started to move to the wet side a few years ago on this and will be wearing a peg on my nose when I vote to stay in the EU.

I'm sick and tired of thick, economically illiterate tories claiming success in terms of this bubble economy essentially based on debt financed consumption - the exact same model that the Thatcher created by destroying the country's productive capacity along with her '86 Big Bang which was the embryo which resulted in '08 financial crisis.

We've had Cameron claiming to have reduced the debt (yes debt not deficit) after he's DOUBLED yes DOUBLED the national debt in only 5 years and chohorted with a central banker (who left Canada with a worse housing bubble than the US prior to the financial crisis) by printing money to reduce the budget deficit - yes the tories reduced the "deficit" by printing money - you know the same policy that failed in Zimbabwe???

Along the way the idiot Osborne duplicated the US's failed government back mortgage scheme that created the '08 collapse but calling his "help to buy" so the sheep que up to buy an over-priced property only to end up getting repossessed again.

There are already mainstream institution fund managers (not to mention the big time traders elsewhere) with short positions against UK Gilts and Sterling in preparation for the bond market collapsing. When this happens interest rates go to 15-20% in a matter of days and the country will default.

The great thing about when this happens, it will be on Cameron's watch and then we'll see what the him and Osborne think of their "strong economy" then...

Now that's an interesting one and it'd be fascinating to know if Labour had their ears to the ground.

It's been pretty clear for a long time Labour's working class vote was on the wane, for a number of reasons.
- The tradition of voting Labour "cos me dad always did" is slipping. Mainly because:
- The unions are dead. That traditional association with Labour is increasingly dying out as older generations pass. Newer generations simply don't have that connection. On that note it always fascinated me you could sit in a working class pub and hear conversations that would make Nick Griffin's toes curl, but those same people would then go out and vote Labour - cos that's just how it was.
- Rightly or wrongly immigration is a huge issue, with complaints of immigration driving wages down and not a small amount of often vocal zenophobia. Bearing in mind Labour opened the doors in 1997, UKIP and the Tories seem the most likely to do something about it. In fact anti-Tory rhetoric seems to have been outweighed by anti-immigration feeling.

On another note I was with a number of staff from the Chambers of Commerce of major city last night, as well as many significant business figures (a mix of entrepreneurs, SME and large/global corporates). Almost without fail they were hoping for a Tory or Tory-Lib Dem government. Definitely not Labour. In economic terms Labour were seen as bad news, moreso if the SNP were pulling the strings.

My understanding of Gilts is that they are sold at a fixed interest rate - selling them short only changes the relationship between the face value and the interest rate not the government's ability to pay as the face value remains the same? If the government issues 10n at 5% it repays 10.5bn back regardless of market sentiment. Are you seriously suggesting that the UK will default on its debt and that it will not be able to borrow unless the bonds have a % 15-20%!!

The short positions themselves won't have a direct monetary affect on the solvency of the country, they're simply a way of cashing in on the consequence of the bond market collapsing though as sentiment grows for these trades, those who are long will go short which will accelerate events.

This country's so called "strong economy" is dependent on liquidity to keep the bubble inflated whether that be low interest rates, quantitive easing (money printing to you and me) and "Help to Buy" etc. but the laws of mathematics mean you can only do this for so long because the velocity of money eventually slows. The government can keep printing money to target inflation but this devalues the currency and exceeds the interest rates on the bonds or deflation kicks in and the economy grinds to a halt and revenues dry up - either way the bonds markets goes under.

When the bonds go, the currency goes with them which compounds the need to raise interest rates further (Russia recently had to raise interest rates to 17% to protect the Ruble) and there's absolutely nothing that can prevent this scenario from unfolding because 35% of the bond market are foreign buyers so it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.

When Thatcher said the market will have the final say she was right - this country will go under as a result of her time in office because when you turn the economy into a service economy like ours which is 70%, there's only so much financial engineering you can do before the chickens come home to roost.

The collapse of the country will be a good thing to wipe out baby boomer's pensions and their two holidays a year, and instead allow the young people of this country at least a fairer society - even though a poorer one.

The Tories know nothing.

I dont think the referendum was lost because the electorate wanted electoral reform but not AV. If any other form voting had been put to the electorate it would have received the same response, give or take a couple of percentage points. Largely because the campaign to retain FPTP tends to swamp the reformers.

Opinions such as this belong in the dark ages.